Weingrill & Nirschl

[Carlos.crm]

I am looking to buy a tuba, I have ruled out in general or Chinese options, but in my search I found a tuba from the brand Weingrill & Nirschl, specifically the 5/4 WNTU1C model, the tubas are manufactured in brazil, I did not find much information about this brand, does anyone know the brand?

[tubatodd]

There is some feedback on the brand on the "other" forum.

[bloke]

I remember an early version of those (at some tuba shindig, YEARS ago).
The mouthpipe tuba was way too short for any sort of reasonably "ergonomics" (NOT on the pictured one) and people were holding the tuba sideways to play it...

...sorta how people have to hold york-style 6/4 C tubas to play those...except much more exaggerated.

interesting to me:
how many different places - to date - have manufactured tubas of this basic design

[tubatodd]

I remember an early version of those (at some tuba shindig, YEARS ago).
The mouthpipe tuba was way too short for any sort of reasonably "ergonomics" (NOT on the pictured one) and people were holding the tuba sideways to play it...

...sorta how people have to hold york-style 6/4 C tubas to play those...except much more exaggerated.

interesting to me:
how many different places - to date - have manufactured tubas of this basic design

As someone who now owns a Besson 995 and is REALLY REALLY loving it....I can see why this has been a often copied design.

[tubatodd]

Slightly off topic:
I've seen several York copies (starting with the Yama-York) that are incorporating a cover/guard for the rotor. This horn has one as well. My Besson 995 does not. Is this really necessary? Am I missing out on some level of protection or comfort that I am unaware of?

[Sousaswag]

I’m pretty sure that’s just so your hand doesn’t touch the rotor and stop it from moving. FWIW I’ve never had that problem when playing a York copy without the guard there. You’re probably okay.

[arpthark]

"W. Nirschl" horns made 15-10 years ago were Brazilian.

Wasn't the Besson 995 originally a Nirschl design?

It would then make sense that something bearing Nirschl's name made in Brazil would use the 995-style tooling.

I played one of those crazy-ergonomics "W. Nirschl" tubas at the Army conference many years ago. I thought the valves were nice but the playing angle was just bizarre. Sound, who knows; it was the elephant room.

[Snake Charmer]

The Besson 995 was a Nirschl design. Walter made it first at BM Symphonic (former known as Boehm&Meinl) in the early/mid 1990s and sold it to Besson in 1997 or 98. I had one of the BM made, it was a really great horn but I couldn't stand the heavy valves (with strong springs needed) and the way I had to spread my hand for the big valves so it had to go

[bloke]

I've blown through most of the versions of those made in most of the different places, and just as other people claim, the so-called handmade original ones are by far the best, though they tend to be flat-natured, and by that I mean that they are built just a little bit too long often and some of them tend to have had their main tuning slides cut to the quick.

[tubatodd]

The Besson 995 was a Nirschl design. Walter made it first at BM Symphonic (former known as Boehm&Meinl) in the early/mid 1990s and sold it to Besson in 1997 or 98. I had one of the BM made, it was a really great horn but I couldn't stand the heavy valves (with strong springs needed) and the way I had to spread my hand for the big valves so it had to go

I hated the big valves when I had a MW 2165 (both of them), but somehow I have gotten used to them (and the springs) on my Besson 995. I thought I would hate them, but this time around I've adapted. Go figure.

[bloke]

The pre-war three-quarter inch bore Michigan York pistons were large diameter and quite long as well, but they were astonishingly lightweight. I just don't know if they could be duplicated today.

Whether or not they're good, I'm pretty sure that going to those large diameter pistons - which are heavy and shorter than York valves - were inspired by York pistons.

edit: The York pistons also featured a bit longer throw and much less dimpling in the porting.

[tubatodd]

Looks like Sierman in Hong Kong ALSO has clone of this design.

http://www.siermanmusic.com/info_15_42.html

There's a facebook post with Chris Olka playing one.

[Denton Big Brass]

The ZO Raptor is pretty similar. https://mackbrass.com/4%2F4-raptor-cc-tuba

[MikeS]

The ZO Raptor is pretty similar. https://mackbrass.com/4%2F4-raptor-cc-tuba

The Mack Brass web site seems to have been banished to the land of wind and ghosts. Does anybody know what’s up?

[jtuba]

The ZO Raptor is pretty similar. https://mackbrass.com/4%2F4-raptor-cc-tuba

The Mack Brass web site seems to have been banished to the land of wind and ghosts. Does anybody know what’s up?

Well this is new and concerning, was just looking at the website two days ago

[MikeS]

I talked to Tom this morning. Mack Brass is very much still in business. It looks like somebody has hijacked their web site and they are working to restore it.

[kingrob76]

The ZO Raptor is pretty similar. https://mackbrass.com/4%2F4-raptor-cc-tuba

The Mack Brass web site seems to have been banished to the land of wind and ghosts. Does anybody know what’s up?

Well this is new and concerning, was just looking at the website two days ago

seems fine to me...

[Mary Ann]

They got it back pretty fast --- why someone would pick on that site is beyond me. But I'm glad the mess was temporary. When everything is bots the bots just go around doing bot things, and some of them are humans.

[UncleBeer]

My guess is he probably just forgot to pay the hosting company.

[kingrob76]

Steering back to the topic for a bit...

One of the very best tubas I have ever played was an earlier Besson 995. I didn't get a chance to put it on a tuner but it passed the sniff test and then some. The design is widely copied / adopted for very good reasons. I recall playing one of the Nirschl versions and thinking it seemed a bit larger than I remember the 995 as being, and the Nirschl felt like a bit more work to play but it was an excellent horn as well. A really, really good 995 is in that rare group that might cause me to part with my CB-50.

I've always wondered about the quality of construction of the horns from South America - to the best of my knowledge, I've not come across one yet to make any specific evaluations.