new tuba: Alexander 164 kaiser BBb

[arpthark]

This arrived in the mail from Europe slightly worse for wear. The bell (which was pristine) got badly crumpled, but I was able to smooth it out best I could during my lunch break today (no rips, and the kranz held together!). Definitely needs more going-over. I also knew this when going in, but the bottom bow is pretty badly flattened. However, valves are fantastic, very quick, and all rotors have good vacuum release/compression, all slides pull. Just needs a bit of work and it'll be the kaiseriest kaiser that ever kaisered.

Intonation is better than my 163 CC. The F is definitely a hair flat, but not monstrously so. I'll have to spend some more time with it. I've already got an appointment in the works to address some things.

Very, very pleased so far, but the receiver is massive -- larger than my extra large 163 shank. My Doug Elliott A+ shank, which leaves about 1/2" of shank showing on the 163, bottoms out in the 164 receiver. I had to put some painters tape on it.

[the elephant]

[Thomas]

Congratulations! I have exactly the same model with the original leadpipe bow and large receiver ("pre war" as I know the full history of mine).

I was at Alexander im Mainz just recently and could play the current 164 gold brass model side by side with mine. The old model definitely plays on par with the current version!

I know that you're a far more advanced tuba player than I am but I can only encourage you to test a mouthpiece similar to e.g. Giddings Szentpali CC (I have the titanium version) adapted to the large shank or the more cost sensitive option "AMH Paul der Große PRO" from Bob Tucci which almost plays and sounds the same and fits just fine at the end of the shank. The sound over the whole range is just amazing, this is the feedback I get. Those Tubas seem to like large and light mouthpieces and play up to the F-Tuba range easier than my F and Eb instruments (of course not as flexible). I was lucky to attend a workshop also in 1:1 with Stefan Ambrosius who gave me valuable hints to master this Tuba and having him saying that he likes the sound very much (adding that one has to invest in practicing especially with the old Alexander Kaisers). Intonation is totally steerable with 1st and 2nd slide and fully chromatic (I use the 2nd slide ring as thumb ring and Meinlschmidt slide oil on both slides). Even low H (B) is available als usable false tone (you just need this one) with 1st valve and 1st slide fully out as it is on Stefans 197/2. 1234 all in is low Db, 1234 all out is C. 4th is always as far out as possible. They changed the 4th valve "reserve" for the newer 164.

Sorry for this enthusiastic post, but I was really triggered by the picture :-)

Best regards
Thomas

P.S.: I have a PT50+ with enlarged shank done by a professional local workshop which also works quite well. But I do not need it anymore as I have both the Szentpali and the AMH.


I took a photo of "grandfather and grandson" last month in Mainz
https://photos.app.goo.gl/jedfkr4AnRZ3QxjE6

one more addition: You had the 17 inch Besson BBb, right? I have the similar New Standard model Besson 226 as 3-1 comp which gets restored to an optimized new condition by a german tuba builder. We seem to share the same tuba preferences :-). And I must add, that both tubas are very cost sensitive ("value for money") even including the restoration work.

[Thomas]

I smoothed out the kranz to be as tight as possible with a special conical wooden bakery roll from the inside of the bell after my local workshop did the basics. No vibrations any more and I can repeat the treatment carefully if needed.

[Sousaswag]

That poor bell. Ugh. Hopefully it straightens out okay.

You’re a true Alexander guy now with that stable of yours! Congrats!

[donn]

However, valves are fantastic, very quick

They aren't loud? The clock spring valves I used to have made quite a racket, I guess possibly because of some wear on the pivots.

(I used to have a Moto Guzzi V twin, which also has pretty loud valves when properly adjusted. Moto Guzzi riders' motto was, "loud valves save lives!")

[martyneilan]

P.S.: I have a PT50+ with enlarged shank done by a professional local workshop which also works quite well. But I do not need it anymore as I have both the Szentpali and the AMH.

Kelly Mouthpieces makes a mouthpiece similar to the PT50, and they have shank options going up to Kaiser.
https://www.kellymouthpieces.com/shanks/index.asp

[bloke]

I'm really happy for you and it looks very repairable, but I'm wondering (if you bought it from someone who regularly sells instruments, rather than an individual who is not in business) if you think the cause of the damage was the packing job, maybe you should let us know who sold it to you.

[hrender]

Tilz makes mouthpiece adapters that might work with the Alex leadpipe.

https://www.thomannmusic.com/bruno_tilz ... n_tuba.htm

[Mary Ann]

(I used to have a Moto Guzzi V twin, which also has pretty loud valves when properly adjusted. Moto Guzzi riders' motto was, "loud valves save lives!")

Ok, you started the off topic. I'd have been more than happy to race you on my bought-new 1971 Kawasaki three cylinder 500. Heh. I got 15k miles on that without dropping it and then let my husband ride it and he smashed it up.

[arpthark]

These valves are pretty quiet. The noisiest part was the piece of old hard electrical tape being used as a makeshift bumper. I just aligned them and put new neoprene bumpers in this evening. There is no play in the linkages or any up-down play in the rotors.

I’ve been getting acquainted with it tonight. It looks like there is a small spot of solder on the underside of the leadpipe that is serving as a makeshift patch, so that will ideally need to be turned into a proper patch. I rolled the bell out a bit more, too, and it’s really not too bad now.

Here are some pics next to the 163 CC (before I rolled out the bell more):

[bloke]

Old Alax tubas analogize to old Arco locomotives..

... pretty rare, and definitely have their following.

[Thomas]

@Bloke, as for me I'd leave out the word "old". I'd be very happy to own the new 164GM I tested...with the advantage of less repairs and maintenance effort in the first 50 years of ownership

And yes, these instruments are somehow oldtimers referring to your analogy, but aren't we mostly also driving on even older roads (and still valid old traffic rules) given the average age of the classical sheet music we play

So I am very fine, driving an old Bugatti with original patina perfectly made for these roads as a tuba racer

[Chris Mayer]

I copy what Thomas has said about the Alex 164 currently at Alexander in Mainz. I played the tuba when I was there mid of february. With 17660 € as (compared that to other famous hand made tubas ) one would get a fully hand-made tuba based on sheet brass. Even the valve tubing is all handmade (bent, hammered, smoothed, rounded,…). Different to the 163 model, where they have tools for the valve tubings, but every else is also hand-made from sheet brass.

I have linked two pictures of the Alex 164 Bb for your info. Hope the dropbox links will work.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/r4oe4y36 ... 0c66r&dl=0

enjoy.

Chris

[donn]

Would you go for the optional trigger? My BBb has a short trigger slide, kind of helps with some of the 4th valve notes - but I may omit it at times, as those notes are fairly flexible.

[MiBrassFS]

In many ways, I prefer a dot of silver bearing solder to a patch if the problem is just a tiny weak spot or small crack resulting from a small, sharp dent in an old leadpipe. The dot will last as long as the rest of the pipe.

[York-aholic]

I have linked two pictures of the Alex 164 Bb for your info. Hope the dropbox links will work.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/r4oe4y36 ... 0c66r&dl=0

enjoy.

Chris

Nice! Is the wrap of that 4th valve tubing, the tuba world’s version of when those trombonists started using the open wrap f attachments?

That is a really nice, open (and pretty darn cool looking) 4th valve wrap!

[bloke]

He sent me a really short clip of him playing a little tune. It sounded very nice even over my cell phone speaker. It's a keeper.

[Mark E. Chachich]

Connie Weldon played an Alex 164 B flat before I studied with her. She played it while she played in the Concertgebouw Orchestra.
Although someone else owned the tuba at the time I did get a chance to play it. It was a fine tuba with a big sound. I remember the response was very good and the intonation was good. The tuba was made of nickel silver, not silver plated.

Congrats on getting the Alex 164, enjoy it!
Mark

[arpthark]

With a Ferree’s roller and various other low-tech tools, I have gotten the bell flattened out to around a B/B+ level, which is okay for me right now.

I can’t really put this thing down. It’s a lot of fun to play.

Intonation… the fifth partial is about the same as my 163, which is approximately 40¢ flat. The sixth partial F is also pretty saggy, but adding valve combinations bring things better in tune. Third partial F is actually pretty okay.

It’s going to take some desmooshifying, but once everything is un-smooshed, I think it will be magnificent.

Somehow I’ve lucked into two clockspring almost-100 year old Alexanders that show virtually no wear on the linkage or the valve mechanisms. This 164 shows a bit of wear on rotor #1, but there is still very good vacuum release on all valves.