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Re: Are some tubas just better (or just not great) for bands?
Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:39 am
by tclements
Just to jump in here again: If you show up to a band with a 4/4 or larger CC or BBb tuba, you'll be in good shape.
Re: Are some tubas just better (or just not great) for bands?
Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:36 am
by MN_TimTuba
bloke wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:21 am
I realize that I'm a hopeless shill
, but here goes (re: John Packer JP379B)
...I played on that particular JP379B for a half hour.
Hopeless shill or not, learning of the features/upgrades/downgrades/playing characteristics of new horns is the main reason I joined the old and now the new forums.
Honestly, I'd love to see a new section (larger than a thread, smaller than the forum?) here solely devoted to instrument reviews. Input from retailers, professionals, accomplished amateurs, etc., would be invaluable (or at least interesting) to those of us living out in the boondocks, where we are rarely lucky enough to get our hands on a new or different tuba every couple of years. Even a report by the average guy who can say, "I was in such and such music store last week, played on the new XXX for a while, and this is my initial impression." A story and a pic would be fun reading, at least for me.
In my head I keep considering whether my in-between tuba should be a 7/8 BBb, a 184CC, or a 4/4 Eb, and I'm leaning toward rotors, based on my rotary baryton. Reading a ton of reviews is what I'm all about for the next year or two.
Thanks for your input on the 379B.
Tim
Re: Are some tubas just better (or just not great) for bands?
Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:43 am
by bloke
MN_TimTuba wrote:...Honestly, I'd love to see a new section (larger than a thread, smaller than the forum?) here solely devoted to instrument reviews...
I have always viewed THE MOST POLITICAL and "triggering" things posted on these two forums (not conservative/progressive takes of the issues that face musicians, but) blunt revelations of the intonation characteristics/tendencies of various models.
That having been said, I believe I'm seeing more of a willingness to accept/face/discuss reality, regarding intonation tendencies - particularly, when compared to a decade ago, when every new model and every used tuba sported "great intonation" (with nothing more said).
bloke "...and the JP379B - no matter who plays it and how - is ALWAYS PERFECTLY IN TUNE.
"
Re: Are some tubas just better (or just not great) for bands?
Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:54 am
by Three Valves
bloke wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:43 am
bloke "...and the JP379B - no matter who plays it and how - is ALWAYS PERFECTLY IN TUNE.
"
To say otherwise is simply contrary to settled, peer reviewed science.
Re: Are some tubas just better (or just not great) for bands?
Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:55 am
by bort2.0
What's the biggest CC tuba that JP makes? How's that one...? (Not a snarky question!)
Re: Are some tubas just better (or just not great) for bands?
Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:03 pm
by MN_TimTuba
bort2.0 wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:55 am
What's the biggest CC tuba that JP makes? How's that one...? (Not a snarky question!)
Their website shows only one CC tuba -
https://www.jpmusicalinstruments.com/pr ... ing-c-tuba ... but it looks like it plays perfectly in tune
Tim
Re: Are some tubas just better (or just not great) for bands?
Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:52 pm
by prairieboy1
MN_TimTuba wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:36 am
bloke wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:21 am
I realize that I'm a hopeless shill
, but here goes (re: John Packer JP379B)
...I played on that particular JP379B for a half hour.
Hopeless shill or not, learning of the features/upgrades/downgrades/playing characteristics of new horns is the main reason I joined the old and now the new forums.
Honestly, I'd love to see a new section (larger than a thread, smaller than the forum?) here solely devoted to instrument reviews. Input from retailers, professionals, accomplished amateurs, etc., would be invaluable (or at least interesting) to those of us living out in the boondocks, where we are rarely lucky enough to get our hands on a new or different tuba every couple of years. Even a report by the average guy who can say, "I was in such and such music store last week, played on the new XXX for a while, and this is my initial impression." A story and a pic would be fun reading, at least for me.
In my head I keep considering whether my in-between tuba should be a 7/8 BBb, a 184CC, or a 4/4 Eb, and I'm leaning toward rotors, based on my rotary baryton. Reading a ton of reviews is what I'm all about for the next year or two.
Thanks for your input on the 379B.
Tim
Thanks for your input, Tim. For those of us who live and play music way beyond the boondocks, I also would really appreciate a new section as you described above. While I am happy with the horns I have, my answer to those family members who ask "How many tubas do you need?" remains the same, "Just one more".
Re: Are some tubas just better (or just not great) for bands?
Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 2:29 pm
by bloke
Three Valves wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:54 am
bloke wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:43 am
bloke "...and the JP379B - no matter who plays it and how - is ALWAYS PERFECTLY IN TUNE.
"
To say otherwise is simply contrary to settled, peer reviewed science.
Peer-review is (or sorts) a "scientific method", but isn't the Scientific Method.
bloke "The Scientific Method - due to its stringent requirements - has been politicized, has it not?
...anyway, I prefer getting my bud's to vote on whether-or-not something is factual."
Re: Are some tubas just better (or just not great) for bands?
Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:11 pm
by donn
Whatever that was about, I know one thing that isn't any kind of scientific method: tuba players evaluating their own tubas.
Re: Are some tubas just better (or just not great) for bands?
Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 5:35 pm
by MN_TimTuba
donn wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:11 pm
Whatever that was about, I know one thing that isn't any kind of scientific method: tuba players evaluating their own tubas.
True, I suppose. Still, anytime someone posts that they bought or built a new horn, what's the first thing we ask? "How's it play? Did you compare it to XXX? Have they improved the linkages? Is the low range better than the old one?"
Answers don't need to be scientific to be useful or interesting. Personal impressions can be a starting point.
At least, to me.
Tim
Re: Are some tubas just better (or just not great) for bands?
Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:43 pm
by Furguson11
MN_TimTuba wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:55 am
Furguson11 wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:34 am
MN_TimTuba wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:24 pm
5) You and I both know a player in Mounds View who plays a JP 379B in community band, and he says that compactly wrapped horn does the job just fine, and I don't doubt it.
Tim
Re: Cronkite bag - that could be, though when I stopped at his home and played his 379B I thought he had been using some Miraphone bag. Either way, I agree on the 7/8 rotary compact horns. Very nice sound, and certainly more comfortable to schlepp around. I do see myself headed in that direction before too many years have passed.
For Christmas I played my little YBB-103 in a small group for our good-sized high ceilinged church, and it did the job just fine. It's pretty small to use in a band, though. For now, I'm still enamored with the sound of my BAT, especially in a band with sometimes one, usually two, rarely 3 tubas. I feel fortunate to have 2 tubas of radically different sizes; having a third seems like a (maybe selfish) luxury!
Which suburb do you call home, Furguson? I have a thought running thru my brain re: a small low brass ensemble.
Tim
Shoreview, MN. The community band there is the Shoreview Northern Lights Band.
http://www.snlvb.com/concerts/ They're actually pretty good and it's gotten a little tougher to get in as it grown to 80 members.
I've been playing in the Roseville Community Band (
https://www.rosevillecommunityband.org/) and subbing with The Bavarian Musikmeisters in St Paul also
http://www.musikmeisters.com/
There community does pull down 150 tubas for Tuba Christmas (OK, small number for some) and there was the first local euphonium and tuba conference that I was aware of in 2019
https://www.bethel.edu/events/2019/twin ... s-workshop, so it seems lately that if you kick over a rock and you'll find a tuba player. Which is a good thing unless you are trying to get into a community band that already has 3-4 regular tuba players : )
Carol Jensen runs the St Paul Tuba Christmas was involved with the Tuba Conference. She'd probably be the one that would know how to get together a large number of Tuba players. I think that the Shoreview Northern lights has a stable of up to 4-5 regular players also.
My wife and I have vacationed in the Brainerd Lakes Area since we were married and it's on our list for retirement-retirement in a few years. Maybe someday I'll be up there and we'll get to play.
Brad
Re: Are some tubas just better (or just not great) for bands?
Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:00 pm
by MN_TimTuba
Brad,
I was at that 2019 workshop at Bethel, too. Made first contact with Dave Werden and also Deanna Swoboda, hoping to get her to our schools and to perform with our DL band once things get running again.
I hope you enjoy fishing - when you retire to Brainerd it'll be a highlight for you for sure!
Tim
Re: Are some tubas just better (or just not great) for bands?
Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:49 pm
by bort2.0
Bethel is right in your backyard, Brad!
I haven't been up that way much. Almost taught a stats class at Bethel a year or two ago, but the commute (plus working my real job, plus grad school at the U) was just too much.
Would be great to meet all you Minnesotans in person sometime (well,the rest that I haven't met yet!)
Re: Are some tubas just better (or just not great) for bands?
Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:54 pm
by ronr
MN_TimTuba wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:55 am
Furguson11 wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:34 am
MN_TimTuba wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:24 pm
5) You and I both know a player in Mounds View who plays a JP 379B in community band, and he says that compactly wrapped horn does the job just fine, and I don't doubt it.
Tim
That must have been where that locally-owned used Cronkite bag for a 379b came from that was floating around on facebook marketplace for awhile. I just picked up a Cerveny Arion (basically the same 7/8 horn as the Packer) that I am planning on using for an all around horn. Most of the community bands around here seem to have plenty of tubas, I couldn't even get back into my old band in Shoreview MN or in the St Paul German Band on tuba, they were full up, so I probably will not have to back a large group by myself any time soon.
Re: Cronkite bag - that could be, though when I stopped at his home and played his 379B I thought he had been using some Miraphone bag. Either way, I agree on the 7/8 rotary compact horns. Very nice sound, and certainly more comfortable to schlepp around. I do see myself headed in that direction before too many years have passed.
For Christmas I played my little YBB-103 in a small group for our good-sized high ceilinged church, and it did the job just fine. It's pretty small to use in a band, though. For now, I'm still enamored with the sound of my BAT, especially in a band with sometimes one, usually two, rarely 3 tubas. I feel fortunate to have 2 tubas of radically different sizes; having a third seems like a (maybe selfish) luxury!
Which suburb do you call home, Furguson? I have a thought running thru my brain re: a small low brass ensemble.
Tim
Yup that’s me with the Cronkite bag. I sold it because I didn’t like the side loader. I’m now using a Superfine bag which fits the horn great and I absolutely love! So I have a mid-sized Miraphone bag which I’d be happy to pass along for a decent price.
If you’re talking about a small low brass ensemble in metro Minneapolis area, please keep me in mind!
Re: Are some tubas just better (or just not great) for bands?
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:32 am
by Furguson11
bort2.0 wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:49 pm
Bethel is right in your backyard, Brad!
I haven't been up that way much. Almost taught a stats class at Bethel a year or two ago, but the commute (plus working my real job, plus grad school at the U) was just too much.
Would be great to meet all you Minnesotans in person sometime (well,the rest that I haven't met yet!)
Maybe at Tuba Christmas. There was a rumor that there may be a Tuba Christmas in the Summer in St. Cloud. Or I liked the one in Northfield, it was a little smaller group. My kids went to Moundsview HS and ran through the Bethel campus during CC practice, so it's pretty close to me.
Brad
Re: Are some tubas just better (or just not great) for bands?
Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:51 am
by Three Valves
bort2.0 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:33 pm
I've never encountered a piston Fafner IRL...but the rotary ones are quite fine.
One just got posted at BB.
https://www.baltimorebrasscompany.com/p ... -tuba.aspx
Re: Are some tubas just better (or just not great) for bands?
Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:02 am
by bloke
The piston one seems to offer a bit more "grit" (sonic presence) and quickness of response (technique), as well as a bit more resistance" (feel).
I have set down the rotary ones after a short time, and kept the piston ones in my lap for longer periods of time.
Picking up a five-valve stupid cheap - and shortening the 5th circuit to an adjusted semitone - might define another one of those "dream tubas".
this: from the guy who says, "Just show up with some sort of tuba".
Re: Are some tubas just better (or just not great) for bands?
Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:25 pm
by Rick Denney
Whereas, This dead thread was revived, and
Whereas, I read it now and not when it was adjudicated in January, and
Whereas, The following facts are stipulated:
1. I am authorized to comment now on the whole thread, because I am an amateur tuba play in an amateur band,
2. Amateur bands play too loud compared to good college and military bands, and especially compared to bands comprising orchestra pros,
3. Amateur bands often play in dead halls. The schools where we play are like playing outdoors with the wind blowing the wrong direction,
4. Amateur bands rarely have a shell (See Above) and the tuba player is serenading curtains at the top and sides, and
5. Amateur bands have amateur tuba players.
Now therefore be it resolved,
That a Holton 345, superlative grand orchestral tuba though it is, was not big enough to punch out of the dead zone and "get out", but a Hirsbrunner HBS-193...is.
Rick "all British concert coming up" Denney
Re: Are some tubas just better (or just not great) for bands?
Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:05 am
by dp
Rick Denney wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:25 pm
That a Holton 345, superlative grand orchestral tuba though it is, was not big enough to punch out of the dead zone and "get out", but a Hirsbrunner HBS-193...is.
Rick "all British concert coming up" Denney
blossom -v- column
Re: Are some tubas just better (or just not great) for bands?
Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:44 pm
by bloke
to the same (IMMEDIATELY RECENT) topic...
I currently own a kaiser B-flat. (I will probably sell it, later this year, but I've been having some fun with it, as well as fun doing some mechanico-sonic problem-solving on it.)
The few times I've taken it to orchestra rehearsals the bass trombonists (ok: "fesshunulz") remark that they have trouble hearing it.
I KNOW that it's frickin' LOUD, because OTHER "feshunul" players have tooted on it at blokeplace.
The thing is this:
Its bell is "way up there" (four feet high, once it's setting on my lap) and (simply) too high up above the bass trombonists' ears.