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bloke keeps messing around with more mouthpiece cup shapes
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2024 5:58 pm
by bloke
Here's yet another that I may only offer in one-piece silver-plated brass.
I kept messing around with my Symphony, Orchestra Grand, and Imperial cup mouthpieces with my 32-inch tall Holton (identical bell and bows to vintage 4/4 York) BB-flat tuba.
This instrument is a little bit smaller than a King 2341 the Eastman knockoff, and the Eastman C versions, but it's really quite similar.
I came up with a roughly "Helleberg-deep" yet
BOWL cup mouthpiece prototype (and heck no, it's NOT a "Bach 7" and it's also NOT a "PT-88") that works better than ANY of those mouthpieces listed above ON THAT PARTICULAR INSTRUMENT and FOR ME.
I'll probably do a "run" of these as well for selling.
The only
other bowl cups in the "Sellmansberger" stuff are shallow bowls:
- Solo (stainless steel modular)
- Shallowberger (one-piece silver plated brass...EXTRA shallow, with a very small throat opening).
So this new bowl cup mouthpiece will be a REGULAR DEEP (not extra deep) cup mouthpiece and with - pretty much - a regular - throat that opens up to a large exit bore.
again: I LIKE it with my 19-inch bell .687" bore contrabass tuba.
I'm not "getting into" this until 2025, but - if there's interest, lemme know (not collecting money now, only soliciting interest).
It rocks-and-rolls with THIS tuba, in particular:
PHAT POWERRRRR !!!
BIG sound, BROAD sound, a good bit of "fist" in the sound (when the player "gets on it"...and - again) with a medium large bore tuba.
I DON'T dislike how it sounds with my huge tuba...but - with that tuba - it's not my favorite mouthpiece...at least, not right now.
Re: bloke keeps messing around with more mouthpiece cup shapes
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2024 8:15 pm
by tofu
.
Re: bloke keeps messing around with more mouthpiece cup shapes
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2024 8:23 pm
by bloke
I used that tuba and that mouthpiece on some things I mentioned that I've played recently including American in Paris, the heavy bass line that comes in towards the end of Bolero, I used it on that Sonic video game concert (with a whole bunch of low, quite a bit of VERY loud, and some fast and some percussive stuff whereby everything happens precisely where it happens, and every "sound-event" requires a very strong "front"), and I just like what it does with that particular tuba (which - again - is in the appropriate overall size and bore of King/Eastman 4/4).
It's just fine with the really huge rotary tuba, but - again - not quite my favorite with it. Other people would probably pick it for other things, because we're all so different, and our instruments are all so different.
Re: bloke keeps messing around with more mouthpiece cup shapes
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2024 10:19 pm
by iiipopes
I am reminded of the junior partner of K&G mouthpieces: Gilbert Spiteri B.Eng (Hons) (Melit.), M.Sc (Loughborough), a degree in mechanical engineering, with the emphasis of applied studies in how mouthpieces work. He computer models the mouthpieces not only for feel, which is what the senior partner, Dennis Kurun Camilleri LLCM, FLCM, FTCL, LRSM, does, but for the two basic physics concepts that make mouthpieces work: 1) Bernoulli's principal, which is why an embouchure actually works, and 2) the transition through the throat and backbore to static wave theory, compressions and rarefactions, which is why a player and mouthpiece can induce the proper resonances we call pitch and tone in a tuba.
Have you considered hiring as a consultant or partner a person who has these same or similar qualifications and understandings to further develop your mouthpieces to take them to the next level of playability, tone, and presence?
Re: bloke keeps messing around with more mouthpiece cup shapes
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2024 10:20 pm
by bloke
nope.
Re: bloke keeps messing around with more mouthpiece cup shapes
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2024 10:21 pm
by iiipopes
bloke wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2024 10:20 pmnope.
You should. I gave up your mouthpiece in favor of a K&G because it plays so much better in all aspects.
Re: bloke keeps messing around with more mouthpiece cup shapes
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2024 10:21 pm
by bloke
Congrats!
Re: bloke keeps messing around with more mouthpiece cup shapes
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2024 10:25 pm
by iiipopes
bloke wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2024 10:21 pmCongrats!
Thanks.
Re: bloke keeps messing around with more mouthpiece cup shapes
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2024 10:31 pm
by bloke
(Maybe someday, someone will tell me where all that jazz came from.)
Re: bloke keeps messing around with more mouthpiece cup shapes
Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2024 5:47 am
by arpthark
I'd be interested. Looking for a good fit for the Piggy.
Waffling around a bit between Symphony, Orch Grand (with and without cup extenders), PT-50/88, and some other stuff. The 88 has about the kind of sound I like but it's too hard to steer and I don't like the rim as much as the blokepiece #2. I'd be interested in trying "large cup" with a smaller backbore, smaller ID (maybe something around 33mm instead of 33.5) and the #2 rim profile. Is that kinda what this one is?
Re: bloke keeps messing around with more mouthpiece cup shapes
Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2024 9:27 am
by bloke
arpthark wrote: ↑Fri Nov 22, 2024 5:47 am
I'd be interested. Looking for a good fit for the Piggy.
Waffling around a bit between Symphony, Orch Grand (with and without cup extenders), PT-50/88, and some other stuff. The 88 has about the kind of sound I like but it's too hard to steer and I don't like the rim as much as the blokepiece #2. I'd be interested in trying "large cup" with a smaller backbore, smaller ID (maybe something around 33mm instead of 33.5) and the #2 rim profile. Is that kinda what this one is?
You're just about right there.
Re: bloke keeps messing around with more mouthpiece cup shapes
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2024 12:04 am
by Pauvog1
I'd probably order one, but would appreciate options for rim shapes (totally get it, if it's not that kind of project). Could a brass bottom be made to mate to the existing SS rims? Just a thought.
Re: bloke keeps messing around with more mouthpiece cup shapes
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2024 10:37 am
by bloke
I might start a conversation about making the brass ones with threaded rims, but that would jump the price right back up. PT (along with their former partner) doesn't do any of that stuff, and they sell a lot of stuff. Most of their stuff reminds me of stuff that was marketed decades earlier (which I've encountered) and most of their stuff that I've seen seems to feature rims which were associated with those legacy makes and models. Don't misinterpret the previous sentence says any sort of an insult to their product line. Every new model of mouthpiece features characteristics of legacy excellent mouthpieces.
I thought what they did in the past (which was to offer a shoot-the-middle shank si such as Miraphone and Schilke had done) was clever, but - these days - people make a bigger deal out of that stuff, and (smart move) they changed with the times.
I personally don't see much of a point in Euro shank receivers on tubas, but I'm also one who doesn't see much advantage in overly-large capillary bores in mouthpipe tubes, so that's my bias. To go a little farther to make my point, understand that there's no such thing as small, standard, intermediate, and Euro Shanks in trumpets, and those are the people who really claim that the tiniest changes in things make huge differences...
... okay, the conservatively yet noticeably- large capillary portions of Holton 34X mouthpipe tubes seems to be a good match for their factory Euro shank receivers, and - when I built my cimbasso with an introductory capillary bore of around or just less than half an inch, it seemed to me appropriate to put a bass trombone size receiver on it, but most tubas are suited perfectly well to standard shank receivers, including my huge Miraphone Model 98.
Re: bloke keeps messing around with more mouthpiece cup shapes
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2024 11:21 am
by Pauvog1
bloke wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2024 10:37 am
I might start a conversation about making the brass ones with threaded rims, but that would jump the price right back up. PT (along with their former partner) doesn't do any of that stuff, and they sell a lot of stuff. Most of their stuff reminds me of stuff that was marketed decades earlier (which I've encountered) and most of their stuff that I've seen seems to feature rims which were associated with those legacy makes and models. Don't misinterpret the previous sentence says any sort of an insult to their product line. Every new model of mouthpiece features characteristics of legacy excellent mouthpieces.
I thought what they did in the past (which was to offer a shoot-the-middle shank si such as Miraphone and Schilke had done) was clever, but - these days - people make a bigger deal out of that stuff, and (smart move) they changed with the times.
I personally don't see much of a point in Euro shank receivers on tubas, but I'm also one who doesn't see much advantage in overly-large capillary bores in mouthpipe tubes, so that's my bias. To go a little farther to make my point, understand that there's no such thing as small, standard, intermediate, and Euro Shanks in trumpets, and those are the people who really claim that the tiniest changes in things make huge differences...
... okay, the conservatively yet noticeably- large capillary portions of Holton 34X mouthpipe tubes seems to be a good match for their factory Euro shank receivers, and - when I built my cimbasso with an introductory capillary bore of around or just less than half an inch, it seemed to me appropriate to put a bass trombone size receiver on it, but most tubas are suited perfectly well to standard shank receivers, including my huge Miraphone Model 98.
Nice. I would probably prefer a fully stainless option myself, (same price point as the Symphony and OG), but that might not be what we are talking about now. I'd purchase an American shank for what I currently own.
Honestly I agree about the shanks/receivers. I think an option of a American and "P" sized options would serve most folks better (from most any maker) but I also understand that the more options comes at a cost and risk.
I'm on board with what ever you decide. I like to tinker, lol.
Re: bloke keeps messing around with more mouthpiece cup shapes
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2024 1:09 pm
by bloke
Brass P shanks are pretty easy for anyone with minimal carpentry skills (even) to sand down to standard shank with sandpaper, a drumstick and a blanket on the floor (for when the mouthpiece slips off the drumstick).
Otherwise, quite a few of the buffet tubas feature P shanks so as to accommodate either Euro or standard.
Re: bloke keeps messing around with more mouthpiece cup shapes
Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2024 10:53 pm
by Heavy_Metal
I love my blokeberg IIa, but I'll try this one too.
Re: bloke keeps messing around with more mouthpiece cup shapes
Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2024 10:13 am
by bloke
I'm not in love with anything in particular - other than "good".
Re: bloke keeps messing around with more mouthpiece cup shapes
Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2025 8:14 pm
by Pauvog1
Any update on this design?
Re: bloke keeps messing around with more mouthpiece cup shapes
Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2025 9:37 pm
by bloke
Pauvog1 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2025 8:14 pm
Any update on this design?
There may be a few run off (again, on a lathe a helluva lot better than mine) in two or three weeks, but they would be un-plated, at that time.
I will tell you (if I didn't already mention it above) that it's more of a bowl cup and not shallow...
...It's (hopefully) an improved version of a previous model...I left that model as it was, because it turned out well, so (well...) I left well-enough well-enough. (Is that enough "well"s?)
I'm also experimenting with exaggerating one of the qualities - in particular - that I personally like re: the popular #2 rim profile...even better slurring (at least, in my experience).
Re: bloke keeps messing around with more mouthpiece cup shapes
Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2025 3:59 pm
by Pauvog1
bloke wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2025 9:37 pm
Pauvog1 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2025 8:14 pm
Any update on this design?
There may be a few run off (again, on a lathe a helluva lot better than mine) in two or three weeks, but they would be un-plated, at that time.
I will tell you (if I didn't already mention it above) that it's more of a bowl cup and not shallow...
...It's (hopefully) an improved version of a previous model...I left that model as it was, because it turned out well, so (well...) I left well-enough well-enough. (Is that enough "well"s?)
I'm also experimenting with exaggerating one of the qualities - in particular - that I personally like re: the popular #2 rim profile...even better slurring (at least, in my experience).
I'd buy one. I prefer a different rim style, but I like to experiment, lol