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Side hustle vs hobby
Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2025 10:37 pm
by MikeMason
Another recent thread got me to thinking. At what percentage of a person’s income would you consider playing music for pay a job vs hobby? When you consider taxes, especially if your main job has you in a higher tax bracket,both sides of social security contribution,etc..I’m gonna guess the pay has in no way kept up with inflation,at least that’s how it is with mine.im still doing it for the rep and because I think I would miss it. I really enjoy my jazz trio more, where we pick our own tunes and always have a good time, but have trouble getting gigs. Back to the original question, I guess you could say if you play the tuba for money, you are a professional, and some might feel if you aren’t paying your bills playing, you’re an amateur. In the eye of the beerholder (Homer Simpson quote) I suppose.
Re: Side hustle vs hobby
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2025 7:29 am
by gocsick
I think the IRS has a definition... it is kind of loosey goosey
A hobby is any activity that a person pursues because they enjoy it and with no intention of making a profit. People operate a business with the intention of making a profit. Many people engage in hobby activities that turn into a source of income. However, determining if that hobby has grown into a business can be confusing.
To help simplify things, the IRS has established factors taxpayers must consider when determining whether their activity is a business or hobby.
These factors are whether:
The taxpayer carries out activity in a businesslike manner and maintains complete and accurate books and records.
The taxpayer puts time and effort into the activity to show they intend to make it profitable.
The taxpayer depends on income from the activity for their livelihood.
The taxpayer has personal motives for carrying out the activity such as general enjoyment or relaxation.
The taxpayer has enough income from other sources to fund the activity
Losses are due to circumstances beyond the taxpayer's control or are normal for the startup phase of their type of business.
There is a change to methods of operation to improve profitability.
Taxpayer and their advisor have the knowledge needed to carry out the activity as a successful business.
The taxpayer was successful in making a profit in similar activities in the past.
Activity makes a profit in some years and how much profit it makes.
The taxpayer can expect to make a future profit from the appreciation of the assets used in the activity.
All factors, facts, and circumstances with respect to the activity must be considered. No one factor is more important than another.
Re: Side hustle vs hobby
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2025 10:48 am
by MiBrassFS
The way I see it, if you pay for stuff you need with the money you make, it’s a side hustle. If you’d do it anyway and some dough is icing, it’s a hobby.
Re: Side hustle vs hobby
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2025 11:57 am
by BramJ
MiBrassFS wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2025 10:48 am
The way I see it, if you pay for stuff you need with the money you make, it’s a side hustle. If you’d do it anyway and some dough is icing, it’s a hobby.
What if it only costs money?
Re: Side hustle vs hobby
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2025 11:59 am
by dp
"side hustle" makes me think of chicks cleaning out their closets and selling what they don't want online
"hobby" seems more like 90% of the people I've got to know via TNFJ interactions over the last 25 or 30 years online
"job" is more black and white and gets you at least a 1099 to mess with
Re: Side hustle vs hobby
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2025 12:01 pm
by MiBrassFS
BramJ wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2025 11:57 am
MiBrassFS wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2025 10:48 am
The way I see it, if you pay for stuff you need with the money you make, it’s a side hustle. If you’d do it anyway and some dough is icing, it’s a hobby.
What if it only costs money?
I have no idea what you’re asking, but…
If you pay to play, by definition, it’s a hobby.
Re: Side hustle vs hobby
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2025 12:24 pm
by bloke
gocsick wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2025 7:29 am
I think the IRS has a definition... it is kind of loosey goosey
A hobby is any activity that a person pursues because they enjoy it and with no intention of making a profit. People operate a business with the intention of making a profit. Many people engage in hobby activities that turn into a source of income. However, determining if that hobby has grown into a business can be confusing.
To help simplify things, the IRS has established factors taxpayers must consider when determining whether their activity is a business or hobby.
These factors are whether:
The taxpayer carries out activity in a businesslike manner and maintains complete and accurate books and records.
The taxpayer puts time and effort into the activity to show they intend to make it profitable.
The taxpayer depends on income from the activity for their livelihood.
The taxpayer has personal motives for carrying out the activity such as general enjoyment or relaxation.
The taxpayer has enough income from other sources to fund the activity
Losses are due to circumstances beyond the taxpayer's control or are normal for the startup phase of their type of business.
There is a change to methods of operation to improve profitability.
Taxpayer and their advisor have the knowledge needed to carry out the activity as a successful business.
The taxpayer was successful in making a profit in similar activities in the past.
Activity makes a profit in some years and how much profit it makes.
The taxpayer can expect to make a future profit from the appreciation of the assets used in the activity.
All factors, facts, and circumstances with respect to the activity must be considered. No one factor is more important than another.
LOL...' doesn't seem particularly "simple" to me, but open to interpretation...ie. whereby those with the armies and the jails can "interpret" others into paying heavy fines, and/or landing in the pokey.
Re: Side hustle vs hobby
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2025 7:49 pm
by Three Valves
gocsick wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2025 7:29 am
I think the IRS has a definition... it is kind of loosey goosey
A hobby is any activity that a person pursues because they enjoy it and with no intention of making a profit. People operate a business with the intention of making a profit. Many people engage in hobby activities that turn into a source of income. However, determining if that hobby has grown into a business can be confusing.
To help simplify things, the IRS has established factors taxpayers must consider when determining whether their activity is a business or hobby.
These factors are whether:
The taxpayer carries out activity in a businesslike manner and maintains complete and accurate books and records.
The taxpayer puts time and effort into the activity to show they intend to make it profitable.
The taxpayer depends on income from the activity for their livelihood.
The taxpayer has personal motives for carrying out the activity such as general enjoyment or relaxation.
The taxpayer has enough income from other sources to fund the activity
Losses are due to circumstances beyond the taxpayer's control or are normal for the startup phase of their type of business.
There is a change to methods of operation to improve profitability.
Taxpayer and their advisor have the knowledge needed to carry out the activity as a successful business.
The taxpayer was successful in making a profit in similar activities in the past.
Activity makes a profit in some years and how much profit it makes.
The taxpayer can expect to make a future profit from the appreciation of the assets used in the activity.
All factors, facts, and circumstances with respect to the activity must be considered. No one factor is more important than another.
One could do that.
Or play for cash and keep their yap shut about it.
“It’s a hobby!”
Re: Side hustle vs hobby
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2025 5:36 pm
by marccromme
If you pay to play, its an addiction. I am severely addicted to low brass playing. Comes with well known additional conditions as TAS ( tuba aquisition syndrome) LBP (low brass plumbing) and FWB (forgetting wifes birthday).. .. have to leave now for some tuba tooting. ..
Re: Side hustle vs hobby
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2025 6:39 pm
by bloke
btw...These days, it's a hobby, but I wouldn't do it - or not much of it - for free.
In the early 80's, I was bringing in annual amounts the low $3X,XXX range (early 80's $'s) tootin' horns, and - these days - I'd be doing really well to pull in some amount in the mid $1X,XXX range (2025 $'s) tooting on horns...
...but - admittedly - I can no longer produce a World Class Sound.
Re: Side hustle vs hobby
Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2025 1:49 pm
by Mary Ann
I'm still working on that WCS, even if just one note, like the low Bb on the Hagen. Not bad now but probly not WCS.