Yamaha 641 Leadpipe Tool?

[the elephant]

I need to buy a "pin wrench" ("pin spanner", "hook wrench") for the leadpipe connector used on the older YBB-641. Does anyone here happen to know the specific size?



No, I do not have the part sitting here. I just ordered it from an eBay shop. I need the tool here ASAP so I wanted to hit up McMaster-Carr… and I do not know the specific size it takes…

[TheBerlinerTuba]

If you warm it up slowly, ie dont burn the lacquer, and tap with a canvas hammer, it will come loose.
thoughts and prayers;)

[the elephant]

I have to be able to take it apart and retighten it many times. (It is to be used in one of my projects.) It is already off the horn it came on.

If I cannot get the pin wrench I need, I may use my lathe to make a knurled ring to replace the stock lock collar so that is it like the Conn-Selmer ones I have been using. (I am using the Yamaha one because it is the correct bore size for my horn.) Seeing how I am still such a novice with the lathe I would rather just have the correct wrench. Yamaha sells it, but I know I can get one from McMaster-Carr for much less. I just need to know the size. I suppose this will just have to wait' I'm just impatient, I suppose.

This is what I might be trying to mimic starting with the Yamaha parts.


Thanks, though, Jake. I appreciate the input!

[bloke]

I bought the spanner tool from whomever used to sell them for this specific job, but - opening myself up to absolute criticism and shaming - I warm these things up and use pliers in a rag. If I mark them up a little bit, I buff them a little bit.

I typically avoid removing them, and feed dent balls through these tubes with bicycle brake cables, and pull them past the dents after pre-greasing the dent balls. Also - as those pipes are thin and pretty soft, I've actually used two stacked 1-in thick earth magnets and burnished dents out of those mouthpipes in that manner after feeding them balls into them from the rotor casings. Okay, now you can really shame me.

I always have viewed the take-apart feature of Yamaha valve sections as being beneficial to Yamaha (in regards to buffing and lacquering... so much more of a put-together feature than a take-apart feature), rather than really offering me - the repair-guy - much of any benefit.

[the elephant]

It has proven its utility to me over and again when work or cleaning has to be done, but I owned two take-tubas in the past, and both were comically fragile, so I knew in advance to build these two horns very robustly.

I’ll still use the pin wrench because I like them. My commie lathe uses a set of the things. Hey, I may already have the wrench and need…

[bloke]

I'm not arguing, but when you build your own take apart tubas (utilizing the types of take apart braces that trombonists use for continuously interchangeable bell section parts) those braces are designed to be taken apart an endless number of times. My claim is that the Yamaha braces are really only made to be put together. I believe they are assembled at the factory, immediately taken apart, polished by workers (who can be short of stature and not particularly gifted in the upper body strength department), and then screwed back together after being polished and lacquered. Also, if a section ends up being damaged in polishing, it doesn't require unsoldering the entire instrument to do a repair during the manufacturing process, and the same goes for a lacquer run.

I don't have any way to know this, but you might be working on since-day-one privately owned instruments whereas I'm working on those which have been "customized" by Young Scholars. Heck, you might even be talking about your own 826. When a flange of a detachable brace is mashed into a body section by a quarter of an inch or deeper, there's not much advantage in unscrewing a brace and thinking that screwing it back together is going to have everything line up just right so. On the other hand, if you're doing something for someone who has bought a Yamaha instrument new and has owned it personally since it was first purchased, it's probably not going to have been "customized" as are those that I typically encounter.

[Almimono]

Not sure of the exact size, but a 30-50mm adjustable hook spanner from McMaster-Carr should work. You might want to check Yamaha repair manuals or a proper research on the forum for specifics.

[bloke]

We always make not useful suggestions because we don't know exactly what the plan is.

Yamaha makes another mouthpipe attaching appliance for the marching 201M convertible tubas which I consider to be much more robust and something designed to be taken apart and put back together many many times. It's a simpler design that uses a tension screw, and a regular slide insertion system.

Of course, the bore of the BB-201 only achieves .728" i.d., but it's such a simple design that it can be duplicated pretty easily with just a little bit of silver braising, drilling, and thread tapping.

Again, all of these comments are likely non sequitur, because we don't know what the plans are in regards to the original inquiry.

Just as a general comment that doesn't fit into this inquiry though, the factory BB-201M .728" appliance works quite well with the popular 45SL-P mouthpipe (and shop-made copies of it), because that mouthpipe usually does ~not~ achieve 19mm prior to the first piston - and thus that Yamaha slide and tension screw appliance is just about ideal for for those who prefer to install the 45SL-P mouthpipe on a tuba with the ability to remove it.

For those who prefer to buy things (versus making things), the Yamaha model BB-104 mouthpipe receiver attaching device (whereby it attaches the receiver to the bell - but it's also removable) can prove to be handy. Both of these items are pretty helpful for early-stage frankentubists who don't yet have a lot of fabrication skills.

Getting back to the specific need here, that alternate Yamaha system (oem installation) relies on a combination of compression fitting and cement. I believe if Yamaha completely trusted the compression fitting, they wouldn't put any cement on there, this is why I would be tempted to go over to a slide and tension screw system, basically as is seen on a sousaphone neck or other detachable mouthpipes made by other manufacturers (B&S, etc.) as I described the 201 marching instrument.

Being redundant, If the bore is somewhere in the low .8XX" range, I'm pretty sure I'd be tempted to just fabricate a short slide and tension screw system from scratch with some inside/outside tubing of that bore size (or tubing of very close to that bore size) and call it done. I really believe that such a system is much more robust as far as being taken apart and put back together numerous times versus the compression fitting and glue system. Stating the obvious here, pre-drilling a piece of quarter inch rod or buying hollow brass 1/4" w/1/8" hole tubing, perhaps shaping down the ends to make it look a little more stylish, brazing it on to the outside tubing to be used, cutting it with a little saw, and then tapping threads into one side of it would provide the finished product with neither very much storm nor stress.

[MiBrassFS]

If you warm it up slowly, ie dont burn the lacquer, and tap with a canvas hammer, it will come loose.
thoughts and prayers;)

Really good tip. I once worked at a place that repeatedly bought the aluminum Yamaha-made spanner wrench. The folks (many new and young hires…) using them never heated the Yamaha installed parts first. They would just grab the wrench and go at the connector invariably shearing the pins off of the wrench.

So, why heat the joint? Some of them look like there’s an adhesive on the joint, some look like there isn’t (maybe it’s just very minimal…).

[bloke]

If you warm it up slowly, ie dont burn the lacquer, and tap with a canvas hammer, it will come loose.
thoughts and prayers;)

Really good tip. I once worked at a place that repeatedly bought the aluminum Yamaha-made spanner wrench. The folks (many new and young hires…) using them never heated the Yamaha installed parts first. They would just grab the wrench and go at the connector invariably shearing the pins off of the wrench.

So, why heat the joint? Some of them look like there’s an adhesive on the joint, some look like there isn’t (maybe it’s just very minimal…).

Yamaha's saxophone bottom bows...
the tension band (with two steel screws - copying Selmer, Paris) "should" seal the overlap joint, YET Yamaha puts a bit of cement on that joint...
...so, a bit of the same mentality...