two customer tubas which are being checked over for them to sell

[bloke]

One of them is a vintage Alexander C with five valves which has been converted to right hand thumb, and with the typical noble sound, and the other is an interesting version of the Meinl-Weston 45 F tuba (15 inch bell type) which is the Heiko Triebener model. It has a dependent fifth valve, as well as a 2nd slide trigger.

I guess I could post some pictures after they are gussied up a bit.

[bloke]

PROGRESS!

They have both been hauled out to the shop..

(I was getting well, but I think I caught a brand new cootie from my bass trombone buddy over the last weekend. I hung around the bedroom most of the day.)

[York-aholic]

Oh goodness.

You need a no cooties policy.

Get well soon!

[bloke]

The Alex needs the most help in order to be attractive to potential buyers.

I went ahead and took on the most difficult issue first: fabricating a not-unattractive patch for (thankfully, the only) cracked area on the bell

It's pretty damn hard to make a decent-looking and smoothly-tapered patch like this, as the curvature changes so drastically over these particular two inches of upward bell flare contour...and no, the cracks were a bit too long for brazing to be a viable choice (as well as being so close to the kranz).

"carefully selected material"? This patch is a chunk off one of those crappy/expensive Yamaha BB-201/321 bottom bow caps.
metallurgically, the only correct choice for most positively affecting the resonance of the bell.



It's stable now, and (duh) before doing this I put the rim back into a flat plane and smoothed out the flare.

...so before, it probably would have been only of interest to someone who would be willing to buy a new bell from Alexander for this instrument, but now it could also be of interest to those who don't mind a reasonably well-formed patch.

I'm thinking that all the rest of the things this instrument sorta needs will be easier to realize (mostly: the sort of jazz that I have to do day-in and day-out to bumped-up tubas) - compared to messing around (for a couple of HOURS...sheesh) making this patch nice ENOUGH to be seen on a snazzy tuba model's bell (well...part of that time was absorbed by first straightening out the bell, but whatever...)

Hey...If I ever am able to somehow get promoted from "journeyman" to (not just "master", but) "artiste", I could SIGN these friggin' patches, couldn't I...??

Hey bloke, I see some scratches on that patch!

Yeah, I'm going to buff it a little bit more...and - if I'm lucky enough to buff a hole in the patch - I can make an exquisite patch-patch.



yesterday's torrential rains: (national news, etc...)
Before all the tornadic storms, I DID get some mowing done...I had to be VERY careful...This COMMERCIAL (6-feet-wide cut/water-cooled Kawasaki 26 hp) Deere zTrak is HEAVY (not as heavy as even the smallest cars, but still: 1300 lbs. + my over-200 more ), and (this is BEFORE the torrential rains - just typical never-really-dries out winter-spring turf) I could have easily gotten bogged down in the mud - or even stuck, but I've actually learned (over the decades) how to sorta make that thing "dance". Today...wow...WERE I to even WALK on the acre-or-so that I mowed yesterday, my FEET would sink in a two or three inches...EVEN THOUGH the entire area is woven with well-established bermudagrass roots.

[bloke]

Someone made the interesting (??) decision to remove the upper bow cap and discard it, so I'm fitting a new one to it, and striving to match the original styling...

I guess this looks pretty legit, now, so I'm going to stick it on the tuba:

[bloke]

Denting and stability-wise, it's coming along...
I installed the only other patch needed (back side of large upper bow - in the typical "crash zone".

I did "valiant" (far from new-looking, but respectable) work on the (o.e.m.) bottom bow nickel cap (small side was seriously mushed around) as well as removing the keel, lifting the very bottom of the tuba's shape back to where it originally was, and the re-installing the keel.

There are some "funny" (sorta faceted/flat areas on the bell's "stack" area - which will be really easy to round back out), but I'll look at those at the end.

The "techie" stuff remains, which is straightening out the linkage and getting the rotors quiet...I'm on it.

[bloke]

...so I just got back from talking to the tool & die guy down the road about a new fixture, and missed the update-updates...

...so y'all catch me up:

- Who actually shot JFK? (Please don't confuse JFK with JR.)
- Did the district court judge have orange hauled off for doing what he is allowed to - and absolutely should - do?

==============================================

Each of these Alex 5 rotor bearings need to be shaved down +/- .007", so I'm shaving all five down that amount, INCLUDING a couple (which I see) were shaved down a bit less than that (obviously) decades ago.

Once that's done, I'm hoping I'll be fairly close to done with this, can move on to the F tuba, then move over to the (50-miles-from-where-this-tuba-player-lives) middle school's torn up 3/4 tubas, and also repair the assistant high/middle school's band director Bach 42BO (that he literally picked up off the curb...a horrible tornado tore up that town two years ago (google: Amory, MS tornado), so - my guess...?? - probably salvaged from a "leveled" house's curb pile.

Anyway...
If I can get ALL of that stuff repaired - and meet EVERYONE at that middle school at the same time, that should be a pretty nice little collection of repair payments...

...and this Alex should end up being a good/solid tuba, once again...I wonder if it's owner will decide to keep it, play the tuba again, and find some other source for down-payment money for a property (??)

[bloke]

Every one of these five rotors seems to sport right around .007" vertical bearing wear.

It's pretty ingenious how these rotor assemblies are designed, as there's rarely ever much lateral wear - if they're manufactured in the way that typical European rotors are made.

Anyway...The vertical wear defines clicking, and - no - the right way to address this is not "plenty of thick oil".

The bearings need to be dressed down.

The external central interpolations on these Alex rotor bearings are somewhat delicate (ie. thin-walled) and the collet that I typically use to grab these ain't grabbin' the skinny cylinders on these Alex bearings...so I'm going to see if I can find one a bit smaller which will thread onto my machine...

...but (well...the tool-'n'-die buddy-o'-mine (only three miles away - 55 mph 2-lane hwy.) I'm sure has a collet that will fit.

Maybe (??) I should beg him to shave each of these down .007" and be done with this tuba.

(seems like the best choice, does it not?)

It's odd that every single one seems to sport the same amount of vertical play...ok: some maybe .006YYY and some maybe .006XXX but (if barely tight, as most everyone knows) the procedure is to tap gently on the stop-arm stem until the rotor moves.

In the past (decades ago...??), two of them had previously been dressed, but the other three never have been dressed. All five - happily - sport a good friction fit into their casings.

- buzzing the thickness of these bearings down a few thousands - easy
- getting them all to feel as good as they do (with the vertical slop) yet WITHOUT the vertical slop: somewhat tedious/time-consuming (as the contact surfaces are not going to be perfectly flat, as they were when new)

I've done about all the other work that needs to be done to the Alex (not for a "blueprint and balance", but to ratchet it up to a "good solid marketable tuba"), so - after the valves are done, I'm moving on to the F tuba, the middle school tubas, and the Bach trombone - pushing for that three-customers-in-the-same-place payday.

(This is the boring/tedious no-difference-in-how-it-looks-in-pictures part whereby these sorts of posts get no "thanks".)

[bloke]

I've started on the F tuba today... (again, a special version of the 15-inch bell Meinl-Weston 45, with a dependent 5th valve).

It seems to only need a couple hours of my attention...

I chem-cleaned the valves, and now I'm looking at the clever #2 slide kicker which is missing a few parts...

[bloke]

The F tuba is all clean and back together.
I found some crap in a Miraphone/M-W/etc. drawer to make a replacement stop-rod for the #2 o.e.m. 2nd slide wiz-bang (which - again - is missing a few little bits and pieces), but I'm sorta tired of being out there, and came back in. I'm going to pet Mr. Covid (the cat) and lay down for a bit...It's "supposed" to be nearly 6:00 P.M. (DST).

Tomorrow, I'll finish it up, and - well - I have to go play one of these weird Memphis Symphony/Memphis-schools system Orff things at one of the schools. (The routine is a late afternoon once-through with the kids, and then an after-parents-barely-get-off-work concert.)...so leave blokeplace at 3 P.M., and pro'lly not back until 8 P.M...but it's two well-paid services, and (hey) I don't have to buff anything.

[bloke]

OK...
(Hopefully) these are all ready to refit (with - hopefully - no or very little vertical rotor play...aka "castanet rhythm accompaniment noise")

Intentionally, I put a bit of a squeeze on the short-stem center bearings with the collet (in the same way that that "Allied" tool can accomplish the same task). At first, none of them fit back onto their rotors, but a bit of convincing (rubber mallet at 12-3-6-9...rinse/repeat) convinced all five of them to fit (way too snugly) all the way down. I'll use a super-high-tech media (Lava soap suds and mineral oil) to get them all spinning nicely (yet, hopefully without wobbling) again, and (at least, according to what I was able to measure) all five of them (as can be seen) needed roughly .007" buzzed off of them (to take up several decades of vertical wear).

Again, the cone shape of well-made rotary valves mostly "forgives" this type of wear, and (again: mostly) there doesn't end up being very much lateral wear at all (ok: "often, there doesn't...")

Tomorrow, I hope to get all five of these bearings freely spinning on their respective rotors, as well as seated and (again: hopefully) spinning freely in their casings - yet sans vertical play and sans the castanet accompaniment.

If all goes well, this is just about the last thing that I believe I'm going to do to/for this Alex C.

[bloke]

update on the rotor bearings:

It's taking about 20-or-so minutes to refit each bearing back-stem to the removable bearing plate (after intentionally swedging them with the lathe collet)...sharp edges (after being cut down to remove vertical play) so I have to be careful...

I have installed #5, hooked it up with the aftermarket right-hand thumb linkage, and am pleased. The spring is "just strong enough" to drive the mechanism, and it works smoothly with not catching.

The #1 is also in and spinning smoothly with no up-and-down movement. This bearing (on a scale from 1 - 10, as far as how snugly it fits into the casing) rates about a 7.5 It stays in place and does not spin, but - just for good measure - I pulled out an old Buescher "Snap-In" saxophone pad, pulled the METAL plate out of the back of it (exactly the needed diameter, and this allows pressure from the screw-on ornamental cap to supply additional pressure on the friction-fit bearing to keep it in place.

(Remember, I'm getting this thing put in GOOD condition - acceptable for sale, and not totally "tricking it out"...There's no budget for that, here. I'm trying to do some good honest work for reliable performance, and - if someone cares to take it to the next level - I've done only things which benefit.)

[the elephant]

How, exactly, are you chucking this up in your lathe? Any photos? I cannot imagine the chuck having enough purchase on the outer edge after it is proud of the chuck jaws enough to allow you to remove seven thou and not crash the lathe or have the workpiece fly out and kill you. I need to know how to do this so I can save a box of old Miraphone rotors.

Thanks!

[bloke]

I grab the OTHER side (the tall sides of the bearing holes) with a collet...do you have a set of those Allied center-hole-shrinking gadgets? ...just like that.

I pinched al of them pretty good...again, it took me a bit to get them all spinning again, but - once spinning - without wobbling as before...so BOTH the center was tightened up and the vertical play was removed. The only thing I did wrong was to not charge enough, but whatever on that.

The valves are quiet - other than the bumpers being made of pretty darn hard rubber, and (again) I'm not doing hundreds of extra dollars of stuff for the price quoted. I'm sorta pleased that I was able to get this done just about "on the nose" - and with no Miraphone cheater cap screws.

...I also think it's weird that all 5 featured just about the same amount of vertical rattle. It seems to me they they would wear at different rates, depending on which ones are more often depressed.

[the elephant]

Oh, damn I'm a dim bulb. I did not even think of the bearing collar on the outside. I even have a nice collet chuck with a range of collets in that size.



Thanks!

[bloke]

@the elephant

Don't feel bad. Remember, I'm the one who has been playing for the better part of 60 years and who has never bothered to form really good breathing habits when playing.

[bloke]

Actually, allowing the collet to shrink the insertion area for the back bearing and then fitting it back out (finally using a drill and a old stop-arm brazed to a short piece of brass rod) accomplishes one more thing: It ends up truing the horizontal contact bearing surfaces.

a bloke opinion:
To me, stuff like this offers a lot of benefit, but when old rotors and casings are really ragged out and really leaky, it costs so much to do the copper and nickel plating thing (which can never really be accurate, and nor can there be any assurance that the nickel will be durable)...

...if a tuba or horn is truly worth it - and the body isn't all worn out as well, it's probably a better thing to do to simply replace the complete set of rotors and casings with nice new ones.

[the elephant]

That is why I did that to my 186. The tuba was too good to die due to leaking valves.

[bloke]

These valves all offer some "poomf" (compressed air release or vacuum release), and I've seen much worse. Again, I was contracted to put this in good sellable and playable condition, and not to make it like a new instrument.

There's nothing in this response that conflicts with your previous post, and I would do the same as you did and that situation.
I have a a clear concept of the good, but I also have a clear concept of good enough for me.

[Stryk]

One of them is a vintage Alexander C with five valves which has been converted to right hand thumb, and with the typical noble sound

Thinking Bloke may take a liking to Alexanders if he plays them enough!