Playing Stands… WTH?

[the elephant]

I have never been able to use playing stands because they are all too short for me. I have to stoop way over to reach down to the mouthpiece.

When they first came out (1999 or so?) I bought a BBC stand from Dave on the phone. I still have it, essentially brand new and unused, because after chatting with him, I went to HD and bought a length of black iron pipe and cut a new inner leg for the stand, et voila! it fits me now…

It was then that I discovered how much I hate having the tuba glued to the floor because I have to move around a lot to see the music with my poor vision. (Essentially, to read music, I functionally have just the left eye.)

This issue has only gotten worse over the fourteen years I have had diabetes.

Now I am an old far who owns too many heavy tubas, and that stand is becoming very attractive. I just pulled the dusty, old thing out, adjusted it, and practiced for about half an hour with the tuba propped up on it.

It is miraculous in some important ways, but I *still* can't figure out how to read the music comfortably with it. I cannot tilt the tuba right or left at all. I figured out that the nut that keeps the "saddle" on is not needed (so long as I do not try to pick it up via that part) and that allows me to pivot from the left to the right page, but I cannot tilt from side to side, which I have to do.

There does not seem to be a way to mimic the adjustability of having the tuba on top of the right thigh via a floor stand. The tuba sticks to the rubber "saddle". What have some of you folks done to adjust to a playing stand? I am not getting it.

And, heh, heh… how long did it take you to trust that it would not collapse while using it? I am afraid my Kurath will smack the stand base and then the floor when the collapsible rod I installed comes loose from the lock collar. Can a mountain bike seatpost quick-release be installed in place of the plastic thing? While the all steel base inspired confidence, that locking screw does NOT.

Should I just tack weld the two pipes together? I have a good MIG welder, so that is not a problem. But then it will forever be set for this specific tuba and will never be collapsible.

Decisions, decisions…

[MiBrassFS]

I keep a microfiber cloth on the saddle. Allows me to slide the horn when I want, but it isn’t too slippery. I’ve had detached retinas in both eyes and my resultant vision is good, but presents challenges. I need to occasionally adjust my position.

[Mary Ann]

I taped together four "furniture scoot pads" to put under the center of my stand, which requires several gorillas to tighten the wing nut tight enough so that it does not sink. I also bought the smallest possible locking pliers to tighten (and loosen) that nut with.

I wonder if bloke's piano bench idea could work, with a permanent riser on the front of the bench? with a trough maybe that allows the type of scooting you need to do?

How about a periscope?

[bloke]

I dislike all the same things about those and I have a k&m that would adjust to the right height, but I just don't like it. I'm also afraid that I'm going to dent the bottom bow with that cup shape even though it has that thick rubber in it.

I'm sure you saw what I did by turning a piano bench sideways, getting rid of the foam and replacing it with a half inch of hard rubber under the vinyl and just sitting on the back and putting the tuba on the front on the same surface as my own ass, but I don't know if that would work out as well for you with the way with those six quarter C mouthpipes which only wrap part way around the bell...(??)

It might work out wonderfully though, and the 2'x1' piano bench that turned to 90° and altered cost way less than any tuba stand. I'm happy as hell with it, and you know that I'm an old grump who's very difficult to please...

Speaking of which...
... I actually made a "get off my lawn" facial expression to use if Colby comes back and chides me some more, but - were I to post it - everybody's going to save it phones and use it back against me later, so...

[tofu]

I see Gene Pokorny (usually down at Orchestra Hall using a playing stand). But (and I’ve never thought to try this myself) he uses it by placing the bottom bow of the tuba perpindicular to the sadle. At first I thought why is he doing that, but then I assumed this was to give him more flexibility for moving around much like what you are describing. Plus it seems that the concerts I’ve attended he often has 2 (every once in a while 3 tubas on stage like at the annual CSO Brass concert) so not a lot of time to adjust a stand when going from one horn to another.

[the elephant]

… turning a piano bench sideways…

I have to have the horn elevated to at least the height of the top of my thigh. Setting it on a chair (or bench) surface places the mouthpiece about half a foot below my jaw.

… the 2'x1' piano bench that turned to 90°…

My 340 pounds would fold one of those in half after about an hour of me and the very heavy 345 "living on the edge" — suicide. One properly weight-rated for my use would cost an arm and a leg. (Examples: My office and workbench chairs, weight-rated, cost me $350 EACH, my Werner ladder, weight-rated, cost me more than $400.)

… were I to post it - everybody's going to save it phones and use it back against me later…

Of course, you are speaking of this little gem…

[York-aholic]

If the microfiber cloth idea doesn’t work for you, nor turning the horn 90 degrees to ‘normal’ on the saddle, perhaps making some sort of new saddle that has a shallower depression. Enough depression to know you’ve got the tuba on it, but not enough to “cradle” it.

If you draw out what you’d like, I’ll turn it on my wood lathe and mail it in your general direction, but you’ll have to stain it dark, dark, dark.

[tubatodd]

TL;DR: Try the DEG tuba rest. It's worth trying and adjusting to.

I bought a DEG tuba rest when they first came out. I used it off and on for years. In college (late 90s) I believe I used a rectangle of perforated rubbery shelf liner on my leg to keep the tuba in place. Eventually I swapped back to using the DEG full time and I haven't looked back. The biggest pro is that it supports the weight, so you are free to position yourself however you need to breathe and play and not worry about contributing to the hefting of the instrument. After 25+ years, I bought a new DEG tuba rest. I have never had the stand let me down. On my old one, I had to replace the rubber pad and the main height adjustment screw. That was it. I don't recall what happened, but I replaced the screw with a $0.75 eye bolt from Home Depot. This year I saw Lowes had a proper set screw of the exact size I needed, so I once again have a proper set screw. Both rests get use.

[the elephant]

I don't like tuba rests at all, but I have this one that I would like to make work for me well enough to see if I can start using it with this tuba. The DEG gets in the way of my feet in a major way. Other brands have their limitations or irritations — I own all of them; I do not talk about them because I have zero intention of ever using them. The BBC is the one I am trying to learn to work around, and the issue for me is being able to move the tuba as I play, which is nigh on impossible without some modification to the rest. I am not interested in buying or trying anything new right now. Thanks, though. My DEG is in the carport supporting a potted plant, the first decent use I have ever found for it. I have some friends who are fellow veterans who have an off-the-books "deep woods" range and access to some rather fun gear (that is not strictly legal). I have considered taking all my tuba stands and rests out there to conduct some "field durability studies" with an M203 slung under the barrel of an AR. It is near Aberdeen, MS, so we call it the "Aberdeen Disproving Ground". It confuses the government types, doncha know.

[dp]

I tried them even though I never had the issues others used these stands to solve. The stands never worked for me either, when I am home I use one of those older oak/ash chairs...I have one with a padded red velour seat that is totally collapsed but suits me just fine as my "tuba chair." I really wish these were still around at the schools and halls but at least I have this one for home practice along with my Manhasset stands I hope its cherished by another long after I am done with them. here are some pictured chair examples of how "that was the style at the time" :
https://www.google.com/search?q=old+Oak+school+chair&=

of course, they don't seem to be around much anymore in the various public school or other facilities we frequent. I can't imagine using some plaStic or even sturdy older-metal folding chair with one of those stands to rest a tuba on. Maybe thats just me, but we all seem to have got used to the craptastic chairs that we get now right?

[sweaty]

I use this stand:
https://us.wessex-tubas.com/products/pr ... and-sdt-30

It's plenty strong for my 30-lb. Martin Mammoth, there is room for my feet, and the flat surface enables the tuba to be moved around. The specs give the height range so you can see if it works for you.

[tubatodd]

I don't like tuba rests at all, but I have this one that I would like to make work for me well enough to see if I can start using it with this tuba. The DEG gets in the way of my feet in a major way. Other brands have their limitations or irritations — I own all of them; I do not talk about them because I have zero intention of ever using them. The BBC is the one I am trying to learn to work around, and the issue for me is being able to move the tuba as I play, which is nigh on impossible without some modification to the rest. I am not interested in buying or trying anything new right now. Thanks, though. My DEG is in the carport supporting a potted plant, the first decent use I have ever found for it. I have some friends who are fellow veterans who have an off-the-books "deep woods" range and access to some rather fun gear (that is not strictly legal). I have considered taking all my tuba stands and rests out there to conduct some "field durability studies" with an M203 slung under the barrel of an AR. It is near Aberdeen, MS, so we call it the "Aberdeen Disproving Ground". It confuses the government types, doncha know.

I've only ever had the DEG, but I believe, compared to other similar stands, the legs can be folded in tighter and still be functional and stable. Most seem to be quite sprawling. Yes, I can see the footsy thing you speak of. I think I've just adapted to it. I put the stand angled in a way that works for me.

[MiBrassFS]

Just wondering out loud (well, you know what mean…), would it help if the saddle wasn’t saddle shaped, but rather just flat?

[bloke]

more annoyance: for @the elephant

After someone says "That won't work", to then continue to suggest to them that it might...

SO HERE GOES !!!

my 6/4 tuba:

- I can set it on my thighs, and it lines up just fine with my face (but - after a while..."Hey, I've been resting this huge tuba on myself.")

- I can - alternatively - set it on this turned-sideways/hard-rubber-padded econ. piano stool, tilt the tuba at a different angle, and (yep) it still lines up with my face.

OK...We put 450 lbs. (two similar-sized dudes standing) on it, just now: no creaking, but (well duh) no guarantees.

[the elephant]

I have to hold my tubas on top of my right thigh only. If I center the horn between both legs it is about six to eight inches too low for me to reach the mouthpiece.

Said piano bench would have to have a big-ass "knob" (pommel") between my legs large enough to hold the tuba and at least as tall as my very thick thigh when compressed by the tuba. This is a riser on the end of the bench that would need to be the size of a tuba rest saddle that is also at least six inches tall when compressed by the tuba.

This is a minimum. I have to stoop somewhat to reach the mouthpiece when it is on my thigh-top like this. I have swapped out the telescopic pipe for the BBC stand with one of the same material/finish/OD/ID that is six inches longer, so now I can hold the tuba at the correct height while having a safe amount of tubing inside the outer tube.

I have purchased a 20mm two-piece locking collar to prevent the overly extended inner pipe from slipping down while the tuba is in the saddle. I only lack something like a self-adhesive PTFE sheet to cover the rubber of the saddle to allow the tuba to move freely without falling out of the saddle. I am looking into that right now.

Setting the tuba on the level of my seat (as with the piano bench) would place the mouthpiece far too low, even if the tuba were set to have the mouthpiece at the highest it could be from the bottom bow (25º tilt to the left). The rim of the bell would be level with my eyes. This is with the Holton.

On my leg, miles above where most people's bottom bow rests… still hunched over a bit…




The last shot shows that the saddle needs to be about 30" above the floor for me not to have to stoop over uncomfortably. in all cases, the tuba is angled so that the mouthpiece is as high up as it can be.

[tubatodd]

The pictures of/by @the elephant make the problem clearer to me. You play tuba in a position that, frankly I've not seen too many people do (except for upright valve tubas). I can't imagine playing in this position.

The horn on left knee? Sure.
The horn straddled but leaning against the left leg? All the time.
Right knee? Would have never guessed it.

Perhaps you described EXACTLY that in previous posts and it didn't register with me. Would I play that way? Nope. BUT, that is YOUR position and I respect that 10000000000%. I'm not sure how a stand could/would help.

[MiBrassFS]

Just wondering out loud (well, you know what mean…), would it help if the saddle wasn’t saddle shaped, but rather just flat?

Just to clarify…

What I meant by this is what if you could adjust the height, but rather than the saddle shape it was something like a flat rubber disc at the height you’d like?

[dsfinley]

I have recently been using a round drum stool as a tuba rest. It gives me a lot of flexibility for movement in all directions. That’s not why I use it though. I personally don’t find any of the commercial tuba stands to be particularly well built and this drum stand seems to be much better quality. I actually want the opposite of what you want. I’d like to get a tuba stand head to replace the drum stool seat with.

[bloke]

I see what you're doing. That's a mirror image of what I do when I play a top-action, which makes a lot of sense.

I hope you don't consider me continuing to discuss this as needling... I sort of find this interesting, if you don't mind terribly.

You got me really curious, and I picked up a couple of my tubas (of different sizes) and held them the same way as you, and it works for me too... but - with the big tuba - the other (the bench thing) also works ("for me").

When resting on your right thigh, I'm seeing the mouthpipe coming down to you at an angle and (when I do what I see you do in your picture) it's just about the same angle as what you're doing (when I imitate what you are doing) and it's okay. When I set my great big tuba on my bench, I lean forward and I'm blowing down into the mouthpipe... and that's okay ("for me") too.

Everyone's going to do what seems to be the most comfortable for them. I found this bench (again, nothing more than an extra long flat barely padded chair seat) to work for me with this big tuba.

I will admit to a couple of other things: my F tuba mouthpipe is low, so I hold my legs together when I set it on my thighs, and that raises it to a comfortable playing angle, as I'm sure you can imagine doing that raises up the instrument. I've tried setting it on my right thigh as you do with your 6/4 instruments, and that makes the F tuba too high for me, but - again - the legs together strategy works and it's a whole lot easier than reconfiguring the instrument. (I've looked at a couple of different ways to take it apart and put it back together with the mouthpipe in a higher position, but I just don't think I'm going to do it... and there's just no way I'm going to ruin its resale value by running the mouthpipe tube uphill across the bell.)

The short/fat Holton tuba I built is an instrument I really like, but I didn't wrap the mouthpipe around the bell very far (candidly, about like the typical yorkophone mouthpipe), and I think it would be a whole lot more comfortable to hold and play on top of my legs with the mouthpipe wrapped around farther. If you saw how precisely this mouthpipe snakes through this tuba and how lucky I was when I bent it, you would understand why I really don't want to try another one, and nor do I want to shorten some other portion of the instrument to make up for it.

One thing we do have in common - though - is that we don't like a third appliance on which to rest our tubas. My keyboard bench - just reiterating - is nothing more than a flat chair seat with enough extra length in the front to safely rest the tuba on it without risking it slipping off the front edge, and - even though I do have to carry it with me to play the big tuba comfortably - there's still only me, a chair, and a tuba on stage, and not a fourth piece of equipment to hold the tuba (a piece of equipment that tends to anchor the tuba in one spot, something I believe both you and I dislike.

[the elephant]

What you are seeing is due to camera angle. My leadpipes angle down about 20° due to my overbite.