Storing bell-front tubas

[Sousaswag]

With my impending Holton 350 coming together in the next couple months, it occurred to me that I’ll have a little bit of a storage problem.

I’ve never owned a bell front tuba before, and they can’t stand on the bell. I figure I have a few options:

1) One of those “display” stands from K&M or Hercules. Ever used one? Give me your thoughts. Particularly for big tubas like the Holtons, Conns, Matins, etc.

2) Build something. Definitely not out of the question, and I have a few ideas. Maybe this is the way to go?

3) Anything you recommend? What do you do?

I don’t want to just lay it on the floor. Even though I practice in my basement, there’s enough foot traffic and stuff down there that I don’t like that option.

I also don’t want to lean it up in a corner, against the wall. It could fall. Nah, not interested.

This tuba will likely never have a case, either. It’s not really necessary for something like this, imo. Also not worth the expense to me. I’ll just carry it somewhere and lay it in my back seat when it leaves the house.

[gocsick]

I hang the 20J on the wall. One of these cheap harbor freight hooks is about 8” wide (https://www.harborfreight.com/hardware/ ... 68995.html). Just fits inside top bow. A few tapcons into the cinder block basement wall, some pipe insulation for padding, and you have the world’s cheapest tuba hanger. Works well for a Sousa too.

[TxTx]

My “good” horn (until the next one shows up this Tuesday) is a 1928 Martin Intermediate Eb with a recording bell. It lives in one of the K&M tuba stands whether I am not playing it at homes or shows. There’s a rubber thing on the bottom part of the stand that provides the only front-to-back restraint tho, so I had to make an additional U-shaped member, padded with self-adhesive felt, to keep the instrument from creeping out of the stand due to the weight of the recording bell and falling over, maybe crushing one of our cats. With that addition it works well.

The stand folds up pretty small and is pretty adjustable, all with thumb screws. I did replace the adjustment screws that don’t need to be monkeyed with to knock the stand down with nylon insert lock nuts to keep well intentioned band mates from monkeying with them.

I am out of town at the moment but can grab a pic imor three of the modified stand next week. Here is a pic from their catalog:

https://www.k-m.de/en/products/stands-a ... tand-black

Eric

[MiBrassFS]

Right now, I only have one bell front tuba, a 4/4 fiberglass Martin/Reynolds/Richards. It lives in a K&M floor stand with a Velcro strap around the middle of the bottom bow and the stand making more difficult for it to tip forward.

I actually had a hard case for this exact model, but I sold the first one I owned and the buyer didn’t want the case. I thought I’d never own another because they’re pretty rare, so I got rid of the case. Dumb. Lo and behold, an even better example of this rare tuba became available and I bought it. I kick myself every time I think about that case!

Here in “the archives” I have two bell front bags. They’re essentially heavy, quilted, zippered bags shaped like 6/4 bell front tubas. No straps, no handles. Very old school tuba bags. Very weird. A very old school was cleaning things out and getting rid of them so I snagged them. I had seen some very beat up ones like these before in a music store attic, so some company had to have been making them, but they aren’t labeled. They’re out there. Keep your eyes open!

[Sousaswag]

Right now, I only have one bell front tuba, a 4/4 fiberglass Martin/Reynolds/Richards. It lives in a K&M floor stand with a Velcro strap around the middle of the bottom bow and the stand making more difficult for it to tip forward.

I actually had a hard case for this exact model, but I sold the first one I owned and the buyer didn’t want the case. I thought I’d never own another because they’re pretty rare, so I got rid of the case. Dumb. Lo and behold, an even better example of this rare tuba became available and I bought it. I kick myself every time I think about that case!

Here in “the archives” I have two bell front bags. They’re essentially heavy, quilted, zippered bags shaped like 6/4 bell front tubas. No straps, no handles. Very old school tuba bags. Very weird. A very old school was cleaning things out and getting rid of them so I snagged them. I had seen some very beat up ones like these before in a music store attic, so some company had to have been making them, but they aren’t labeled. They’re out there. Keep your eyes open!

Okay, those bags sound really cool. I’m sure we’d all love to see some pictures if they’re convenient for you!

@gocsick Thank you for the wall hanging suggestion. That seems like the way to go, and I hadn’t thought of that!

[bloke]

Pick up a Wenger tuba tamer, remove all of the stuff having to do with it sitting on the floor, and mount it on the wall. You're going to have to use flathead screws for mounting (in the vertical part) for the sliders to still work.

[dp]

With my impending Holton 350 coming together in the next couple months, it occurred to me that I’ll have a little bit of a storage problem.
I’ve never owned a bell front tuba before, and they can’t stand on the bell. I figure I have a few options:
1) One of those “display” stands from K&M or Hercules. Ever used one? Give me your thoughts. Particularly for big tubas like the Holtons, Conns, Matins, etc.
2) Build something. Definitely not out of the question, and I have a few ideas. Maybe this is the way to go?
3) Anything you recommend? What do you do?
I don’t want to just lay it on the floor. Even though I practice in my basement, there’s enough foot traffic and stuff down there that I don’t like that option.
I also don’t want to lean it up in a corner, against the wall. It could fall. Nah, not interested.
This tuba will likely never have a case, either. It’s not really necessary for something like this, imo. Also not worth the expense to me. I’ll just carry it somewhere and lay it in my back seat when it leaves the house.

Get a sky hook, ask your teacher where you can find one

[MiBrassFS]

Okay, those bags sound really cool. I’m sure we’d all love to see some pictures if they’re convenient for you!

I now know exactly where they are. Next time I’m near them, I will take some pictures.

Side note: I actually practiced some Arban’s on my 340 today. So. Much. Fun. So much resonance. Having only 3 valves is “freeing” in a strange sort of way. Maybe it removes the “paradox of choice.”

[bloke]

They are not cool as the ones described above, but King bell fronts will fit into those budget-grade large size Pro-Tec bags, and the bags zip.

Getting back to the wall mounted altered Wenger Tuba Tamer, on my wall I have several of those wall-mounted Wenger sousaphone things that a band director gave me, and they're pretty easy to adapt to tuba simply by adjusting them inward, but - to be more specific about mounting the tuba holding portion of a Tuba Tamer on the wall - once it's freed from its floor stand portion, probably just two or maybe three cone-shaped holes need to be drilled into the vertical back portion and lined up on a stud. It's really simple to drill like that simply by drilling a hole large enough for the screw and then putting a much larger bit in there for the cone shaped portion of the hole. Then you need a substantial flathead screw (times two or three) to go into those holes and into the studs. Perhaps 3 inch deck screws would suffice, but maybe something slightly larger, just to be really safe.

[daktx2]

I really like wall mounting tubas, keeps them accessible but not underfoot. In interior finished rooms, I like the look of the string swing tuba mount, though it's a bit pricey and doesn't fit every tuba. For a basement, I'd do the diy cheap hooks + pipe insulation approach suggested by @gocsick.

With any approach, make sure you're really careful .w/r/t getting the screw to hold really securely in the wall. If your basement is finished/drywall, make sure the screw hits the stud solidly, and make sure you use the right kind of anchor if it's concrete or other masonry.

[bloke]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I wouldn't trust an anchor - even in concrete - for hanging up a tuba.

A school system employee hung some of those Wenger sousaphone things up in a concrete wall band room. I had to fix one of the sousaphones that fell after the anchors failed.

[gocsick]

I agree. I used Tapcon masonry screws directly into the block walls. You really need a hammer drill to install properly though.

https://www.concretefasteners.com/tapcon-blue/

[bloke]

Maybe even some sort of epoxy, if there's a way to combine a fastener with some sort of industrial glue...??

[aarongsmith]

Maybe even some sort of epoxy, if there's a way to combine a fastener with some sort of industrial glue...??

If it's solid concrete, you could use one of those glass resin capsules that you put in before the fastener.

[Sousaswag]

Yes, unfinished basement. I’d need to do some research on heavy duty concrete fasteners or something, especially considering how heavy the Holtons are.

[bloke]

Yes, unfinished basement. I’d need to do some research on heavy duty concrete fasteners or something, especially considering how heavy the Holtons are.

I'm wondering about screwing a couple of 2x4's to the (first story) floor joists, and then using concrete screws (or fasteners of your choosing) to fasten the 2x4's to the concrete wall...and THEN mount your tuba-holder to the 2x4's. With the top of the 2x4's fastened up to the floor joists, that nearly insures that the thing won't fall. (insert "this may-or-may-not-be-a-great-idea emoji" here)

[gocsick]

Tapcon 1/4 screws have a minimum pull out rating of 750lbs in 2000PSI concrete and 250lbs in light masonry block. Shear loading strength is roughly a factor of 2. So IF INSTALLED PROPERLY into a structurally sound wall, the three screws going into the will support a minimum of 1500 LBS static load.
If you are at all worried about the wall, I like @bloke's idea of running supports down from the floor joists.

[rodgeman]

I use the Hercules stand. I had a bell front Mirafone 186. I now use it for my Eastman. Very sturdy and off the ground.

[Sousaswag]

Re-awakening this thread with a happy solution to oversize bell-front tuba storage, as well as weirdo Helicons!

I found one of those old Wenger Tuba Tamers on the ol' Facebook Marketplace for a whopping $25. Well built, sturdy, and highly adjustable. It is a great fit for these old 6/4 recording bass tubas, especially if you don't have the upright bell. Martin, Holton, Conn, etc. It doesn't feel like the tuba is in ANY danger of falling over. If you can find one, I'd HIGHLY recommend it for this application.

Look, I bought a Hercules stand, and it worked, but I never felt that the horn was totally secure. That recording bell just makes the thing so front heavy. I ended up putting my double-bell euph there instead and it's a much better fit. I'm sure for upright bell tubas it will be fine as well. Big 6/4 tubas are also too wide to fit into the brackets of that stand without modifications. It's a well-made stand, but it's really meant for smaller instruments.

[
I swear, it's secure!

[
A side view. Great fit.

I was ALSO looking for a sousaphone/helicon stand for my Pan-Am BBb. I didn't know if the Hercules sousaphone stand would work due to the helicon bell being straight rather than having that elbow/bell collar that sousaphones do. In my research, I found some custom made sousaphone stands that sort of look like copies of the Yamaha AirLift stands. I really didn't want to spend almost $150 on a STAND. Also, those Yamaha stands are REALLY hard to find.

Luckily, TubaForum exists, and I was able to find this thread from @Doc: viewtopic.php?t=1495

Double luck, my local music store that services my schools I teach at had SEVEN of these "3/4" tuba stands that they were blowing out on clearance! I scored one for $50. Just like Doc said, all of these parts were adjustable by allen wrench, and you pretty much have the AirLift sousaphone stand. Yay! These things are stout, well built, and heavy. It also feels like the helicon is in zero danger whatsoever of falling over.

[
Here it is. Thanks, Doc! What a great idea!

I hope this helps someone! I know we don't all love "display" stands, but getting these things off the floor and out of the way is a HUGE deal for me in my TINY practice room.

[tokuno]

Maybe even some sort of epoxy, if there's a way to combine a fastener with some sort of industrial glue...??

I've used liquid nails. Works great.