Rudolf Meinl Tuba review

[JC2]

Greetings Friends,

I've been very fortunate to have had access to six wonderful instruments from Rudolf Meinl during the past year or so. I've got a good bit of downtime at the moment so I thought I'd write somewhat of a review about these wonderful tubas.

I was very lucky to be playing with the West Australian Symphony Orchestra (WASO) over 2023 and the beginning of 2024. They own three newer Rudolf Meinl Instruments namely:
-4/4 F tuba (5 Valves)
-4345 CC tuba
-5/4 Bayreuth BBb

These were previously played by Cameron Brook (AKA 'cambrook') who retired from WASO last year.

My current workplace at the Air Force Band has :
-two 4/4 BBb's
-5/4 BBb
-4/4 CC

I've played a number of different instruments over the years and found my happy place with a Yamaha 822 F and Eastman 836 CC. I feel paticulary at home playing piston 'American style' instruments. For the most part in the past I've disliked rotary valve tubas, I never really understood why players would prefer them over piston instruments. It's possible that because I learnt to play on a piston EEb as a youngster, that will always feel like home. Clarity, ease of use, legato playing, efficiency always seemed to be much better for me with pistons.

Keeping in mind my general dislike for German style instruments, I do make an exception for Rudolf Meinl Tubas which are astonishingly good. Across all the different models I've tried there are a lot of similarities in the way they play.

Sound

It's impossible to describe sound with words but I'll try my best. The sound is very unique. Dark, resonant, well defined core to the sound whilst also blending beautifully with the brass, winds and strings. Rudy's have a similar sound to Alexander's but perhaps slightly broader and a bit less aggressive at fortissimo. There's a living quality to the tone that's just a joy to play. The 4/4 F tuba sings beautifully, whilst the contrabass models really support an ensemble well. I find myself not really having to 'add' much to the sound with my chops. Just relax, put in a good buzz and they sounds glorious. The 5/4 BBb sounds especially massive and rich but still with a very defined core to the sound. They are the kind of instruments that I look forward to playing in the morning. Just doing my daily long tones with them is awesome fun!

Response

The nice thing about Rudy tubas is how easily you can produce the sound. You can just relax and let the Tuba do a lot of the work. The response is very fast and predictable. Starting notes softly happens like magic. Slurring through the valves is clean and straightforward. These are nothing like a PT6 for example that I find myself having to work hard not to have any 'burrs' or 'dirt' through slurs. The 4/4 CC that the band owns slurs nearly as easily as a piston CC, it's quite remarkable.

Intonation

No Tuba is perfectly in tune and these are no exception. The newer instruments (4/4 F, 4345 CC and Bayreuth BBb) that are owned by WASO have very good intonation, although they're the kind of tuba that's easy to blow way out of tune if you're not listening. They've all got a second slide trigger so there's easy solutions for pitch correction.

The older (1990's) 4/4 C that the band owns that I'm using currently has some whacky intonation. Notably he second space C tends to be quite flat. It's very possible to lip everything in tune but I have to have my ears really switched on when playing it. It's a downside that I'm willing to deal with at the moment due to the other great qualities of the instrument.

To summarise, it's a shame there's not more of these things around. If I were able to go through college/uni again, I'd love to have owned a 4/4 or 4345 CC Rudy. For auditions they'd be killer and also incredible for orchestral playing.


BTW I've got a couple of pictures of these instruments but I'm not sure how to share them on here.

Send me a message at jasoncatchpowle (at) gmail (dot) com !

[tclements]

I've ALWAYS loved RMs. I played my first one (silver, 4/4 CC) in 1973 at Custom Music. As a poor college student, simply I could not afford the $1,500 entry fee; laughable by modern standards. Over the years I played a few more. I had a 4/4, 4 valve CC, onto which Larry Minick grafted a Mirafone 185 5th valve. I used that horn for many years, mainly for quintet and pit work (we played a lot of ballets those years, with a small orchestra, 3 basses & 4 celli). The last one I had was a 5/4 CC, which I used for the St Louis Symphony audition, when Michael Sanders handily won the position. I sold it shortly thereafter, going for a Hirsbrunner 4/4 CC. When I opened "The Low Brass Werks" in 2000, I contacted Meinl about carrying his instruments. They wanted a $100,000 stock order, just to open me as a US representative. Once again, I did not have the entry fee. Over the years, I have tried to get some samples sent to California, just so people could play these fine instruments. The story was the same: send money and we'll send instruments. My feeling has always been: if you get instruments in the hands of professionals, and they get seen and heard, sales will follow. If someone (NOT ME!) had the scratch and could import several dozen samples, I believe these tubas will once again become very popular.

[BuddyRogersMusic]

I, too, love my RM tubas, a 5/4 F and 4/4 CC. I've had them both for over 20 years and won't part with them. I had a silver 4/4 CC made for the USAREUR Band in Germany in 2006 and if I ever run across that instrument, I will have to own it. Those two are the best playing examples of that model I've played and as Jason pointed out, there are some that aren't quite as good as others. The newer ones have a slightly larger main tuning slide and leadpipe that contributes to the broader sound without sacrificing clarity.

My F is not only a visual work of art, gold brass body with yellow brass valve set, it sounds gorgeous. There are other great F tubas but none feel like home as mine does to me.

I wish there was more exposure to Rudi's fine instruments but their current price tags put them out of reach for some when so many good, less expensive, options are on the market. That said, if one were to see a used one listed, it is worth the trek to at least try it to see if it speaks to you.

Thanks for posting, Jason.

[MiBrassFS]

The WASO instruments are, I’m sure, great instruments! Cam traveled to Diespeck to be involved in the final touches and to bring at least some of them home in person.

Glad to hear you’re sitting in the seat, JC! Best wishes to Cam, too!

[bloke]

Unexpectedly, the 6/4 size instruments that they make offer (labeled as "5/4") - in my experience - offer the best intonation of all of their models, particularly if they both have a fifth valve and a number two slide trigger on board.

The bell profile of those big tubas is somewhat similar to the old 1920s-30s Conn 36J bell shape, and indeed the sonority is reminiscent. It's an okay sound, not my favorite, but I have no objection.

I haven't had much experience with their F models and I've had very limited experience with that smallest four quarter size piston C model, but I have a great deal of experience with most of their various sizes of B-flat and C instruments. I currently don't own any, but I've owned several.

[MiBrassFS]

There used to be a lot of RM tubas around. Even some of the (fancier) high schools had them.

Two RM’s really grabbed me. A “5/4” CC… and a raggedy 5 valve F.

That F was magical. Nearly played itself.

I heard it ended up in a dumpster at the end of its life. I tried to save it, but failed. I was too late.

[bloke]

Dennis Bamber brought in a bunch of them. Previously, the Michigan place brought them in, but really really marked them up, and (later) Dennis was only selling them for a modest amount above his cost, which created a price drop and a flood in interest.

[MiBrassFS]

The HS ones around here were from Cussed ‘Em. Lots of the “old school” RM 3/4 & 4/4 BBb’s.

There was one school that had a bunch of the 4/4 HB BBb’s. It was a huge powerhouse band school. They’re now a very modest program.

[Sousaswag]

I’ve very much enjoyed the RM 3/4 CC. Never played a 4/4 or a 5/4, but man, that 3/4 rocked my world.

I just don’t really have a role for it to play with what I have already.

I think if one really does a lot of small ensemble stuff, doesn’t really like Eb or F, and only wants one horn, that 3/4 is the best thing for you.

RM’s are just so nice - when the bell hasn’t been crunched!

[arpthark]

Yeah. I had a 3/4 Rudi at the same time I had a Miraphone 186, and there was a lot of overlap. The Miraphone was maybe 5% larger. The Rudi was really nice, but in comparing them, I ultimately stuck with the one with better intonation (186) even though I liked the Rudi sound better. Great horn. I'd be super excited to try the 4/4, 5/4 and (gulp) 6/4 Rudi at some point.

[bloke]

I realize that I'm not young, but just based on what the RM instrument designated as size 6 is - having never played one), I don't view it as something with which I would not choose to play (just as an example the John Williams tuba concerto, or any music which requires strong fronts, as far as hall-perceived articulations are concerned). Even with the six quarter 21.2mm bore BB rotary instrument that I have which features a Holton 345 shaped and sized bell, it requires a good bit of effort to to get its resonance focused and delivered enough to offer individual instrument sound clarity in a symphony orchestra, and to seem loud when it's important to seem loud...
... In other words, I'm speaking from no experience whatsoever re: RM6.

[MiBrassFS]

I’m over wanting to have the biggest tubas as daily drivers, but I sure would like to give one of those RM giants a toot!

[bloke]

I’m over wanting to have the biggest tubas as daily drivers, but I sure would like to give one of those RM giants a toot!

Yes. I just used the word "outlier" in another post, but outliers do stimulate our curiosity.

[arpthark]

Jason sent me some pics to post:

[Sousaswag]

Cool! I always thought the 4345 was a piston horn that sorta looked like the Hirsbrunner 392. Didn’t know they offered a rotary version!

[bloke]

Cool! I always thought the 4345 was a piston horn that sorta looked like the Hirsbrunner 392. Didn’t know they offered a rotary version!

They do resemble them (sort-of in the way one of their F tubas appears as if a carelessly-assembled B&S), but the 4345 is smaller than the Hirbrunner it resembles.

[erdickman]

Love my Rudolf Meinl tubas...RM50 C Gold Brass, RM 4345 C rotary....

[Pauvog1]

Love my Rudolf Meinl tubas...RM50 C Gold Brass, RM 4345 C rotary....

That Gold Brass RM50 sure is a beautiful instrument!

[bloke]

Rudy horn-porn?

Here's my model 5 (pitched in C) that I previously owned.
I bought it (slightly raggedy) from someone up in Ohio (met them just south of Louisville at a gas station to trade money for tuba) and slicked it out and customized it a bit (no refinishing).

A tubaforum-ist is the current owner...I believe they probably like it.





Here's a shot (casino gig - woodwind player's phone pic). I believe they were doing a drawing (high rollers) for a trip to Germany, and they hired us (LOL...a bunch of jazz musicians who presented ourselves as a "German band") to play a little bit of music to set the "tone" for the drawing. (We were sitting there waiting for them to let the folks in and get it over with.)
The woodwind guy (a band director) took the picture after exclaiming..."_ _ _ -damn! look at the SIZE of that tuba !!!"

[Sousaswag]

[

Just played this 4/4 yesterday. Institution owned, and in desperate need of some love and care. In typical Rudy fashion, the bell has been crumpled at least twice, and repaired.

This one has a cool 2nd valve trigger gadget that is, unfortunately, broken. The 2nd slide wobbles side to side in it's outer tubes. It ain't mine, but it made me sad.

It makes some nice sounds, but the valves are also so out of alignment it seemed to fight you when you pushed them down. Oh, well. A tuba that COULD be very nice. Intonation seemed generally okay. Always makes me sad to see a quality instrument in such poor shape.