Schilke mouthpieces?

[Grumpikins]

Does any body here have experience with schilke mouthpieces? I'm thinking about splurging on the helleberg 2 model.

[arpthark]

Lots of folks like em, but I've never found a rim I liked on them. YMMV.

[Pauvog1]

I find it to be roughly in the same family / style as the 30H and Baer MMVI.

[the elephant]

Give the Schilke Helleberg II-CLE a try. It is quite good.

[tofu]

I’ve got a 67 - the old style which the blank looks like a Conn 1 or 2 which is the rim I prefer. The old man himself fitted it to me way back in the early 1970’s in their old space on Wabash Street in the Chicago loop. Spent an hour and a half with a 12 year old kid. Using the tuba he had made - looking back I think it may have been the one for the Canadian Brass - who at one time were using Schilke horns. Half way through this particular helpful kid told him it was a nice tuba all in all - but Mister the notes come out all wrong - what should have been BBb was instead coming out C. You need to fix that! - which is instantly when he informed me that the world did not just consist of BBb tubas.

I still use the 67 on occasion - for me it worked well in instruments like a rotary Rudy Meinl I had back in HS and the MW25 I used in college - both school supplied instruments. I did have it modified by Schilke after a few years. Personal preference. I personally don’t care for the new rims they switched to but plenty of folks seem to.

[Grumpikins]

Give the Schilke Helleberg II-CLE a try. It is quite good.

Thank you

So the CLE model, as spec'd on the website, is very close the tuba exchange Rose model that I have been using for years. The Helleberg model they have is spec'd close to my old conn helleberg. The model I initially asked about is spec'd right in the middle which is where I think I want to be.

The Laskey 30H is also in that range, but its $80 more and they seem to be having production issues as everywhere I look they are out of stock/delayed. Also, the throat is larger. I want a little smaller.

Anyway. I'd like to hear more about the schilke mps in general. My wife is bugging me for a Christmas gift idea and a new mp is the only thing I'm really interested in. Or a newer car...haha. but otherwise, I dont want anything.

[arpthark]

Some of my experiences: I've owned quite a few (but not the CLE). I've had, at various points, the 66, 67, Schilke Helleberg, Schilke Helleberg II, and the Schilke Geib.

Of all those, the Geib was probably my favorite. The Schilke Helleberg (not H2) has a very narrow opening, like 31mm or something, so that was a no-go for me. It doesn't play anything like a Conn Helleberg.

The shank on Schilkes is kind of a 'tweener shank in between American and Euro. But like I said, the rims are just a little too cushiony for me, which some people really like.

Helleberg II... meh. Works well for a lot of people, and the basic shape has been adapted into numerous other really popular things like those made by Laskey ("H" series). The sonority that comes to mind when playing with those is "sandy vanilla." Again, that's just me, and tons of people love 'em.

Have your wife buy you a sampler from some place that has a generous return policy and send back the ones you don't want.

Our own @bloke has also messed around with the Helleberg II design with his Sellmansberg II. It worked pretty well in my Eastman 832, but I liked the clarity I got from the Symphony a bit more.

Maybe you can dip your toes into Joe's stuff. It's really great, and customizable. Fun to swap out and try different combinations.

[MiBrassFS]

The Laskey 30H (when Laskey Mouthpieces was owned by Scott Laskey before he passed) has its roots in the Schilke H2. Scott Laskey was a long time Schilke employee and was the custom mouthpiece guy for them. He developed the H2 for them. It was his baby.

I have several Schilke H2’s and one Laskey 30H. All made by Scott.

I have zero info on the Eastman made “Laskey” pieces. I have heard (not confirmed…) that there are now some made in China and some (that were?) made in Canada. I’ve never been in the same room, to my knowledge, with the Eastman made stuff.

Sooooo… Reynold Schilke’s first tuba mouthpiece was a smallish bowl cup (now called the 62). Real efficient and handy. He then added a couple of pieces modeled after the 1930’s Hellebergs, now called the 66 and 67. And on from there.

As a yoot, I too spent some time with Mr. Schilke (”the old man” —- not to his face…), but spent more time with Scott. Even went to a couple of Cub’s games with him!

Be advised that, depending on era, Schilke shank sizes can vary a bit from what we now call “American” or “Euro.”

[bloke]

It looks to me as though some of these other mouthpieces that say stuff like "Canadian Brass" and "Arnold Jacobs" and stuff like that are also in the helleberg II family... and isn't there even a Kelly thing that's in this size and shape range? I've also seen a Perantucci mouthpiece that's obviously a helleberg II on the inside... hey, I'm not demeaning that line of in the least, but what I want to make clear is that I don't know much of anything about them and - when people tell me they play a number so and so from that line of mouthpieces - that doesn't mean anything to me.

Yeah, I've experimented with this cup shape and tried to make the other features of the mouthpiece - including the rim, throat, and backbore - more palatable to me. I succeeded, but I still really don't care for the type of sound that this cup produces enough for it to find its way into any of my instrument cases. Again, I hope that those who purchased them are happy with them, and I appreciate those purchases very much. I'll probably be making some more.

[Pauvog1]

Give the Schilke Helleberg II-CLE a try. It is quite good.

Agreed! I totally forgot about that one. I owned one once (and sold it), but it is one of my favorites in this style.

[Pauvog1]

It looks to me as though some of these other mouthpieces that say stuff like "Canadian Brass" and "Arnold Jacobs" and stuff like that are also in the helleberg II family... and isn't there even a Kelly thing that's in this size and shape range? I've also seen a Perantucci mouthpiece that's obviously a helleberg II on the inside... hey, I'm not demeaning that line of in the least, but what I want to make clear is that I don't know much of anything about them and - when people tell me they play a number so and so from that line of mouthpieces - that doesn't mean anything to me.

Yeah, I've experimented with this cup shape and tried to make the other features of the mouthpiece - including the rim, throat, and backbore - more palatable to me. I succeeded, but I still really don't care for the type of sound that this cup produces enough for it to find its way into any of my instrument cases. Again, I hope that those who purchased them are happy with them, and I appreciate those purchases very much. I'll probably be making some more.

I bought one of these from you! I don't think it works for what I currently play, but I can think of 2-4 horns I've played on in passing before that it would be great on!

[Grumpikins]

So I talked to a friend and he loaned me 6 mps to try. One of which is a schilke 67.

The rim is smaller than I wanted. The face has a much more rounded profile. I can see why some people dont like them. It's not uncomfortable, just different feeling from most. It doesnt feel like your getting a good seal, but you are.

Playing; this mp created a REALLY nice clear sound. Much brighter than any of my current pieces. Great response, dexterity mid range bottom of staff F up 2 octaves. Same issue as my Conn's, blessing; playing typical tuba parts range bottom of staff F down is very difficult.

I really like the brighter sound, clarity and response of this mp. I had virtually the same effect with it on all my tubas.

The common feature that seems to be giving me trouble is the rim ID. The schilke 67 is listed as 1.27", which is in the range of the other mps that give me the same trouble.

This leads me to think that the schilke Helleberg-II/-F might be a good fit as they have an ID of 1.29"

I have also spoken to a schilke sales rep who told me that they can make some custom modifications as well.

The exploration continues....

Also, there are those who say the best thing to do is practice more with what I have to improve. While I agree that practice is very important. No matter how much you polish it, a turd is still a turd.

I must be a turd....

[bloke]

At the risk of this having already been mentioned, inexplicably I believe I've noticed that mouthpieces with Helleberg II shaped cups play instruments at a slightly higher pitch level than with most mouthpieces (which are not shallow mouthpieces). It seems like a couple of the tuba models named after bears seem to be built whereas they tune at 440 with their main slides pushed all the way in - at least for me. This cup shape can come to the rescue for instruments such as those. Of course, for people who like the cup shape anyway, this is just an added benefit.

[donn]

The common feature that seems to be giving me trouble is the rim ID. The schilke 67 is listed as 1.27", which is in the range of the other mps that give me the same trouble.

This leads me to think that the schilke Helleberg-II/-F might be a good fit as they have an ID of 1.29"

Who knows, might be. But not likely because of the extra 0.35 millimeter of inside diameter. (32.41 vs. 32.76 per the specs I'm looking at.) Get out your stuff and look at 0.35mm, and remember that this difference is diameter, not radius. Also measure some mouthpieces, and see if the way you take the measurements of a rounded profile like this could account for 0.35mm. For me, a good sounding low range is just something you have to work out, and practically any mouthpiece size interior diameter will do fine - maybe better if it isn't real wide.

I'm surprised that a 67 is bright sounding. The one I have - Conn Precision shape like the one tofu talks about above - is hard to tell apart from the Conn 1, a nearly bottomless interior. Maybe the 67 changed a lot inside as well as out. An "F" mouthpiece should be a lot shallower, and it seems to me ill suited for anything but a bass tuba where higher range is the point.

[LeMark]

I use a 69c4 on my Flat. Spent a long time going back and forth between that and the bloke solo, but for now I use the schilke

[Grumpikins]

That's where I'm at right now. The schilke is really nice.

Also in the pieces I have to try are a bloke symphony and imperial and they are really nice too. I'm leaning towards the blokepieces because I can order a couple additional parts and have more choices.

It's hard to say no to the schilke though because it has very different sound that I really like.

I just cant spend that much money to have both on hand.... would like to....

[iiipopes]

Good mouthpieces. Anecdote: I was in a local music store @ 20 years ago trying out a trade-in Reynolds (for those unfamiliar, very similar to the King, since Reynolds was poached from Papa York by H. N. White before going off on his own). The low brass teacher (a trombone guy) was playing it through a cup mouthpiece and frankly sounded thin. I asked if they had any other used mouthpieces behind the counter. they sheepishly pulled out a well-used Schilke H-II. I said listen to this. I inserted the mouthpiece, took a deep breath, and rattled the entire store with glorious fundamental band-supportive tuba tone. The low brass teacher was wide-eyed. When I was done, I said this is the difference a good mouthpiece makes. I then left quietly.

[Grumpikins]

Good mouthpieces. Anecdote: I was in a local music store @ 20 years ago trying out a trade-in Reynolds (for those unfamiliar, very similar to the King, since Reynolds was poached from Papa York by H. N. White before going off on his own). The low brass teacher (a trombone guy) was playing it through a cup mouthpiece and frankly sounded thin. I asked if they had any other used mouthpieces behind the counter. they sheepishly pulled out a well-used Schilke H-II. I said listen to this. I inserted the mouthpiece, took a deep breath, and rattled the entire store with glorious fundamental band-supportive tuba tone. The low brass teacher was wide-eyed. When I was done, I said this is the difference a good mouthpiece makes. I then left quietly.

I love this story. Really shows the difference of someone who plays tuba and someone who doesnt, but teaches it as a "low brass" pro?... not to bash non tuba players, but the experience speaks for itself.

[Grumpikins]

Just an update. My friend made me a deal I couldnt pass up on the Schilke 67 and Sellmansberger/houser modular pieces. I'm very happy with these. A vast difference from the pieces I had. I'm not saying that this is better than that, just different. Adds to my arsenal.