GG Contra

[tobysima`]

BBb contras are heavy enough, and I can't find any sound examples. Is the extra girth and weight worth it? Has anyone made these convertible, or converted to concert GG tuba? Sound recordings would be appreciated, too!

[TubātōTubŏtō]

Just compare Cavaliers 00' and 01'...There's a difference. That said, I auditioned for Phantom Regiment for the 2020 season(as a newbie age-out, so I guess DCI wasn't meant to be, given the circumstances) and I found myself pretty grateful that horn wasn't in GG. I've never played GG, so I really can't say anything authoritative on that front.

[tobysima`]

Just compare Cavaliers 00' and 01'...There's a difference. That said, I auditioned for Phantom Regiment for the 2020 season(as a newbie age-out, so I guess DCI wasn't meant to be, given the circumstances) and I found myself pretty grateful that horn wasn't in GG. I've never played GG, so I really can't say anything authoritative on that front.

It seems to me that the GG contras are louder and more bass-like. They sound better to my ears.

[Stryk]

I have one converted to BBb. It is huge and heavy!

[tobysima`]

I have one converted to BBb. It is huge and heavy!

How does it sound?

[Stryk]

Good sound. Fairly well in tune. Slides need mucho work - not aligned well and hard to move. I’m not a BBb aficionado and like I said - it’s huge and heavy!

[tylerferris1213]

I got to play for a season with a contrabass bugle in GG. First and foremost, it was a lot of fun! As far as sound, imagine a good bass tuba is like a sports car, agile and a fast get-up. Now imagine a contrabass tuba as a truck, harder to handle nimbly but much more power. Playing contrabass bugle is like driving a dump truck. Lol. Very deep sound, and the fact that you only "need" 2 valves most of the time is pretty cool. Personally I enjoy the sound of them. I'm a big guy, so the extra weight didn't bother me much.

Playing contrabass bugle inspired me to build my subcontrabass tuba in FF.

[Dan Schultz]

I've converted a couple of GG contras to BBb. They play 'OK'. Not spectacular... but OK.

[tobysima`]

I got to play for a season with a contrabass bugle in GG. First and foremost, it was a lot of fun! As far as sound, imagine a good bass tuba is like a sports car, agile and a fast get-up. Now imagine a contrabass tuba as a truck, harder to handle nimbly but much more power. Playing contrabass bugle is like driving a dump truck. Lol. Very deep sound, and the fact that you only "need" 2 valves most of the time is pretty cool. Personally I enjoy the sound of them. I'm a big guy, so the extra weight didn't bother me much.

Playing contrabass bugle inspired me to build my subcontrabass tuba in FF.

I think a front valve version with at least 4 valves would be something I'd be interested in playing. Could be great fun!!

[tylerferris1213]

When the fundamental of the horn is that low, a 4th valve would be more of a hindrance than an asset. The length of the 4th valve slide would be ridiculously long, and would be prone to stuffiness. That's why a lot of contras only have 2 valves. That's all you need!

In my anecdotal experience, even the 3rd valve on my subcontrabass FF tuba gets a little stuffy. Take that how you will.

[tobysima`]

When the fundamental of the horn is that low, a 4th valve would be more of a hindrance than an asset. The length of the 4th valve slide would be ridiculously long, and would be prone to stuffiness. That's why a lot of contras only have 2 valves. That's all you need!

In my anecdotal experience, even the 3rd valve on my subcontrabass FF tuba gets a little stuffy. Take that how you will.

I know the Disney Future Corps had 4 valve GG contras. They sound great, and maybe they played great too.

[the elephant]

Guys, they had two valves because ALL G bugles had two valves for about 13 years until DCI legalized three-valved G bugles.

Before the DCI Rules Congress voting to allow two-piston horns (phased in between 1977 and 1979) all bugles were in G and had one horizontal piston that dropped the pitch by a whole step (operated by the right thumb) and a rotary valve that dropped the pitch by a half step, which was operated with the left hand (using whichever finger fit best, which varied by instrument).

After DCI legalized three-valved bugles a rider was appended to allow four for contrabass bugles. This was the end of actual drum and bugle corps, as the G horns, missing a valve, could not play a fully chromatic scale: they were BUGLES. Once DCI allowed hornlines to use fully chromatic instruments DCI became "Brass Marching Band in G" and "Drum and Bugle Corps" as an activity ceased to exist. After ten years of this, they caved into the eventual and switched to Bb/F lines, and G horns were phased out over a few years.

A GG contrabass bugle with two valves still needs the 3rd valve to play a lot of notes. For instance, without a 3rd valve, there is no low concert Bb. It does not exist without a special half-step slip-slide.

These bugles all read treble clef, as in the brass band. The missing notes from a two-valved G bugle are (in TC) second space Ab, bottom line Eb, and the D and Db below that. This causes some pure hell for the brass arrangers. You really had to have played the horns to arrange for them effectively.

The number of valves and (eventually) the key of the instrument are strictly inline with DCI competition rules as they have changed over the decades. Before DCI in 1971, there were CYO, VFW, and AL rules to deal with. This was the time when the horns had only one horizontal position, which could drop the pitch by differing amounts using different slides, with G/D bugles being the most common for years, with the G/F horns coming into use in the early 1960s. A weird half-step slip-slide allowed for some uses of other keys, usually, a half step or a whole step lower than G. These were eventually replaced with slip-in rotary valve units that dropped the pitch by a half step.

When the G/F#/F bugles in piston/rotor configuration became legal (around 1968) everything changed, musically. Then, to increase technique and take a step towards three-valved horns, the two vertical piston G/F#/F bugles became legalized in 1976, to be phased in one voice a year, starting with two-piston sopranos in the 1977 season, with baritones added in 1987, and then French horns, mellophones, and contras in 1979. By 1980 all big corps were using mostly two-piston horns, with a lot keeping their piston/rotor contras for years due to the cost of replacing them.

Just trying to clean up some misinformation. Y'all take it easy…

[tobysima`]

Guys, they had two valves because ALL G bugles had two valves for about 13 years until DCI legalized three-valved G bugles.

Before the DCI Rules Congress voting to allow two-piston horns (phased in between 1977 and 1979) all bugles were in G and had one horizontal piston that dropped the pitch by a whole step (operated by the right thumb) and a rotary valve that dropped the pitch by a half step, which was operated with the left hand (using whichever finger fit best, which varied by instrument).

After DCI legalized three-valved bugles a rider was appended to allow four for contrabass bugles. This was the end of actual drum and bugle corps, as the G horns, missing a valve, could not play a fully chromatic scale: they were BUGLES. Once DCI allowed hornlines to use fully chromatic instruments DCI became "Brass Marching Band in G" and "Drum and Bugle Corps" as an activity ceased to exist. After ten years of this, they caved into the eventual and switched to Bb/F lines, and G horns were phased out over a few years.

A GG contrabass bugle with two valves still needs the 3rd valve to play a lot of notes. For instance, without a 3rd valve, there is no low concert Bb. It does not exist without a special half-step slip-slide.

These bugles all read treble clef, as in the brass band. The missing notes from a two-valved G bugle are (in TC) second space Ab, bottom line Eb, and the D and Db below that. This causes some pure hell for the brass arrangers. You really had to have played the horns to arrange for them effectively.

The number of valves and (eventually) the key of the instrument are strictly inline with DCI competition rules as they have changed over the decades. Before DCI in 1971, there were CYO, VFW, and AL rules to deal with. This was the time when the horns had only one horizontal position, which could drop the pitch by differing amounts using different slides, with G/D bugles being the most common for years, with the G/F horns coming into use in the early 1960s. A weird half-step slip-slide allowed for some uses of other keys, usually, a half step or a whole step lower than G. These were eventually replaced with slip-in rotary valve units that dropped the pitch by a half step.

When the G/F#/F bugles in piston/rotor configuration became legal (around 1968) everything changed, musically. Then, to increase technique and take a step towards three-valved horns, the two vertical piston G/F#/F bugles became legalized in 1976, to be phased in one voice a year, starting with two-piston sopranos in the 1977 season, with baritones added in 1987, and then French horns, mellophones, and contras in 1979. By 1980 all big corps were using mostly two-piston horns, with a lot keeping their piston/rotor contras for years due to the cost of replacing them.

Just trying to clean up some misinformation. Y'all take it easy…

You can't hit a low A, either, or an Eb. At least 3 valves are necessary for all the fun!