fiberglass is back

[bloke]

I'm noticing a private sector uptick in regards to a demand for fiberglass sousaphones... It seems even stronger in Europe than in the USA.
I believe the expensive new carbon fiber ones are riding this trend.

Four valves sort of cancels out any benefit, in my experience, as that's the heaviest single feature that any tuba can sport - more so than the difference between 3/4 and 6/4.

The last ones that King made and the Jupiter ones are quite heavy, but the older American made instruments which featured thin fiberglass and very little gel coat - or perhaps nothing but an industrial coating of paint over the fiberglass - were the ones that weighed under 20 lbs. When those are found with good close tolerance pistons and casings, those are the jewels. The black ABS plastic glue (that is sold the long side the plumbing PVC glues) will solve the problems of cracks in the old brittle plastic bell flares, but some of the old bell flairs are not brittle, depending on various environmental factors (I suppose?).

I personally like the Olds and Reynolds ones just fine, but due to the way things were attached to the fiberglass, there are usually more problems to solve with those to get them in dependable playing condition. Further, the brittle plastic bell flair problem seems to be consistently more of a problem with those. I do like the (Olds/Reynolds) combination of a sort of 36K Conn size body with a King smaller bore valve section mounted on it.

I see a whole bunch of NOLA players (by no means "to a person", but a large percentage) using old King instruments - whether brass or fiberglass. It just seems to me that the smaller King body and the smaller King bore size offers the most punch. Jupiter is similar, but just doesn't quite seem to "have it" (je ne said quoi)

school bands?
All the band directors seem to be too busy posing and buying brand spanking new - and thin wall to boot - ($11K - $14K) silver plated brass ones to take outdoors... which - to me - sort of reminds me of taking wedding china to a picnic.

[gocsick]

I see a whole bunch of NOLA players (by no means "to a person", but a large percentage) using old King instruments - whether brass or fiberglass. It just seems to me that the smaller King body and the smaller King bore size offers the most punch. Jupiter is similar, but just doesn't quite seem to "have it" (je ne said quoi)

I think it is just economics. There are a whole lot of Kings out there... and they cost less than Conn 20Ks. I was looking for a King for street band stuff when the Holton fell into my lap at a price I couldn't pass up.

Jupiters and Yamahas don't seem to survive years of school abuse the way that the old Kings and Conns did.

I think punchiness is a function of the player more than the sousa. I am not even in the same league of a lot of NOLA sousa players or HBCU sousa players, but I am still quite a bit louder and crisper than your typical high school sousa player. I am also a lot punchier on sousa than many of the more "classically trained" tuba players around.

[arpthark]

My '60s Conn 36K with adjustable 1st slide is a gem. I only play a handful of sousa gigs a year but I don't think I'll ever get rid of that thing. Super fun.

[catgrowlB]

When I got my 1970s Selmer Signet many years ago, it was in overall rough condition and cheap. It was on Craigslist about 2 hours away from me. I drove down there, chatted with the seller, paid him for it and brought the sousa back with me. I cleaned it, then I got all slides and valves lubricated and moving well, did some epoxy work, paint, and new neck & bits and bell screws. It plays and sounds great, and it 'floats' on my shoulders @ around 17.5 pounds, with shoulder and bottom branch pads/guards. The valves/slides still have very good compression and are still in great condition. It's very similar to the Conn 36k, but with different neck/bits and beefier valveset and bracing.
It had it for many years now and plan on keeping it

[bloke]

When I finally decided to switch from a Conn fiberglass to a King fiberglass, it was nice to be able to play a first valve C that was usable...
... It just seems as though a whole bunch of music uses the pitch, C.

[bloke]

I see a whole bunch of NOLA players (by no means "to a person", but a large percentage) using old King instruments - whether brass or fiberglass. It just seems to me that the smaller King body and the smaller King bore size offers the most punch. Jupiter is similar, but just doesn't quite seem to "have it" (je ne said quoi)

I think it is just economics. There are a whole lot of Kings out there... and they cost less than Conn 20Ks. I was looking for a King for street band stuff when the Holton fell into my lap at a price I couldn't pass up.

Jupiters and Yamahas don't seem to survive years of school abuse the way that the old Kings and Conns did.

I think punchiness is a function of the player more than the sousa. I am not even in the same league of a lot of NOLA sousa players or HBCU sousa players, but I am still quite a bit louder and crisper than your typical high school sousa player. I am also a lot punchier on sousa than many of the more "classically trained" tuba players around.

This could be true. band directors (other than the Yamabot band directors) all think they want the Conn short action sousaphones, and of course they must be silver !!!
I'm pretty sure the school bid price - these days - is around $13,000. Of course, it's not their own money that's being spent. I've been having trouble with the pistons on the most recently made ones (with those two arc braces supporting the lower mouthpipe feeding through a pin block).
I suspect that the American manufacturer - as well as one overseas - have tightened up there tolerances, but without tightening up their workmanship, which is a basic requirement when tightening up tolerances and expecting things to still work.

When I find myself in Mardi Gras street parades and such, it's just easier to make a racket with a King, as everything is a bit smaller... and I have operable 20K's up in the attic awaiting restoration which I could be using (instead of the fiberglass King that I picked up this last year). I believe it's just like smaller trombones making more of a racket outdoors than bigger ones do.
It seems like most of those colleges whose sousaphone sections hold "how loud can you rat on your sousaphone?" contests own Jupiters, and those are the same size as King.

King no longer makes fiberglass sousaphones, but towards the end they were as heavy as their brass ones - as is the case with Jupiter. I just don't get the thing about making the fiberglass ones out of such thick fiberglass. Thick fiberglass possibly (??) busts/cracks easier than thin, because it's less flexible and more brittle.

[iiipopes]

Lee Stofer rebuilt a "real" 36K for me, including customizations, including additional water keys and all moveable slides, including the most important upper 1st valve slide converted into a movable slide to address the intonation adjustments needed for a 3-valve horn, vented valves, re-engineered joint between the brass and 'glass sections, etc.

I am with arpthark. With my K&G 3F, it is simply a joy to play.

Oh - and as an aside about the King 2nd space C 1st valve being in tune and the Conn 2nd space C 1st valve being flat: the 1st valve circuit was also cut so that a shove gets the C in tune, @ 5/8 inch pull gets most of the other 1st valve notes in tune, a little bit more pull gets 1+2 G and D in tune, and progressively more pull gets the 1+3 low C and F in tune.

[humBell]

When I finally decided to switch from a Conn fiberglass to a King fiberglass, it was nice to be able to play a first valve C that was usable...
... It just seems as though a whole bunch of music uses the pitch, C.

I make do with a b#...

[bloke]

When I finally decided to switch from a Conn fiberglass to a King fiberglass, it was nice to be able to play a first valve C that was usable...
... It just seems as though a whole bunch of music uses the pitch, C.

I make do with a b#...

The 22K second-space C behaves better than the 36K second-space C.

[catgrowlB]

Years ago, a former band director acquaintance (who I rarely see anymore) had 2 or 3 King fiberglass sousas just sitting on a high shelf in the band room he taught at. He told me they hadn't been used in years. I did some repairs for a few brass instruments of his school. I should have asked to try out the King fiber sousas or even asked if I could buy one. He did end up gifting me an old beat up Conn 14k that I fixed up.

I played various silver King sousas throughout high school and my first college I attended (refurbished HN White and late Seeburg era) and they were fantastic. Especially the refurb HN White sousas with the fancier bracing and brazed bells. Easy to play with great intonation, warm clear sound.
I'm sure the fiber versions are pretty great too.

[catgrowlB]

When I finally decided to switch from a Conn fiberglass to a King fiberglass, it was nice to be able to play a first valve C that was usable...
... It just seems as though a whole bunch of music uses the pitch, C.

I make do with a b#...