Kalison 2000 with trigger instead of 5th valve?

[matt g]

I’ve seen bells in far worse shape put back into good order.

I’d be more concerned about general playability given how hit or miss these big Kalisons could be, but the tuning rig might fix some problems.

Kalison valves always seemed pretty nice, although I never dug the backwards routing.

[donn]

The one I tested had the weird "Kalison High Ab" problem. My personal DS did not have any real issues. I do not think the BBb horns have this issue on the high Gb, but I have never played the BBb horn, so I don't really know.

Just to make sure ... in the expression "Kalison High Ab", is the Ab in question at the top of the bass clef? That high? I know some people don't think that's very high, so seems like it has to be asked. We aren't talking about the Ab in the treble clef, where I'd guess the choice of partial would be idiosyncratic to the particular tuba.

I bet it would be fun.

I bet you would be correct.

[the elephant]

I am referring to the top line Ab.

[donn]

The corresponding Gb is no problem here, nor could I find any other intonation anomalies.

Leadpipe not soldered to the bell is a surprise. Weight is something like 22 lbs.

[donn]

Oops. The G above that Gb is ... well, it just isn't. So that's a problem. Next note is Ab, no problem there.

[donn]

The leadpipe is removable, so it isn't soldered to the bell like a leadpipe ought to be - and the attachment points weren't attached either, due to missing screws etc.

So I pulled it off, and blew a note on it - G. As in G whiz, what a coincidence. With the leadpipe back in and a couple of strong spring clamps on the attachment points, I now get a much better G at the top of the staff.

I wonder if the C Kalisons have a removable leadpipe (looks like they do), and if it's Ab.

[the elephant]

The valve sections were fully removable, so the leadpipe had to be, too. I do not know whether this BBb horn has the removable body braces, but it seems to have inherited the Kalison removable leadpipe.

Check the braces to see if the valve section can be removed. This makes cleaning a cinch, and dent work is made much easier, too, when you have to schlep around half the weight and bulk at any one time.

[donn]

Indeed, that was a good thing to look at. It's detachable all right, and between the four mount points, there remained only one bolt. I got some 4mm bolts from the hardware store this afternoon and put them on, for a little extra security.

[edit] not really 4mm. The reference bolt is apparently not any common standard - .8mm thread pitch like a 5mm bolt, but is smaller diameter than 4mm and larger than 6-32. I stabilized it with smaller diameter through bolts with nut and washer. Eventually I reckon all these connections are going to get drilled and tapped to some common standard. [/edit]

[edit]The valve section fasteners are very close to 8-32 - that thread won't fit, but it's at least roughly the same TPI and can be easily tapped to 8-32. The most trouble involved was reducing the round heads to ca. .235" diameter. So ... if you have a chance to get a Kalison tuba with missing screws, I'd say "no worries." Get an 8-32 tap and some 1/4" 8-32 brass round head screws. [/edit]

[martyneilan]

I saw my name mentioned. I had a K2001 CC for a few years. Same overall concept as the Pro 2000 but a hair bigger in all dimensions and some design tweaks. I would consider it a small 6/4 both in looks and playing as opposed to a large 5/4 which the Pro 2000 fits. On my horn the Ab was good but one ledger middle C was way off, first valve pushed in was perfect. No other significant tuning issues. Sold it to a TubeNetter in Knoxville who played in a very fine community band. The best thing you can do for these horns is to get the felts replaced and valves aligned.

[Cameron Gates]

Absolutely a BBb 2000. Tom Lyckberg in the US Marine Band played one for years. Well, I should say Tom blew the s@#t out of one for years.

As far as sound goes I can’t tell you much. Tom sounded the same on each horn I heard him play: 2000, 186, 5/4 Rudy, 3/4 Amati thing........all the same. Quite an artist.

I can tell you I had a 2000 CC for a number years. Wish I still had it. I won the job on it. Super horn IMO.

BTW, that trigger mech on the BBb was super slick.

I read once that Gronitz built the valves. Dunno if true or not but they were really good.

[the elephant]

My prototype Daryl Smith CC had a Nirschl/B&M piston valve set. I do not know who made the rotary valve, but I really dug the back cap, which was like a smooth dome with a set screw in the center. It looked like a Voigt valve with a custom machined rear cap.

The Nirschl-made piston set only differed from the two I have today in that the finger buttons were designed by Kalison to feed into the whole look of the horn, The bottom caps were stock Nirschl. The porting was the same, but different (longer and more "pretty") knuckles were used to get the slide tubes where Kalison wanted them to be.

I do not remember what valves were installed on the few Pro 2000s that I got to test, but they were not the same as those on my early DS; I think they were the same as the ones on the production DS tubas. They were a little fatter in the casing and more closely spaced than the Nirschl valves on my horn. Perhaps these were Gronitz-made sets?

My DS played a lot better than the later production horns. I suspect mine (first owned by Paul K. in Philly) was a "best-effort" iteration which was then followed up with a few "cost-effective" iterations to set up production. I am sure the valves were changed at that stage. Probably Herr Gronitz offered a better bulk order price to the Italians than Herr Nirschl?

Hmm…

[bloke]

I wasn't aware that Dietrich Kleinehorst made piston valvesets...

I noticed that his Gronitz valvesets were the same as Kalison's, but just assumed that they bought them from the same maker...(??)

Those valvesets are excellent, in my view...I currently don't own a tuba of either of those makes...

[donn]

If anyone's curious about valve details on this one, I can try to photo whatever might be relevant. The valve caps are glaringly different from the CC 2000 photos I've seen, with that the shiny bevel. Other than that ... kind of surprised that the springs stay in when the pistons come out, like they're attached to the bottom cap, but I haven't taken off a bottom cap to look at it. The valves feel really nice, not loose but so far not finicky about lubrication.



Quick and dirty dent job - she charged me for 1 hour, including resoldering the leadpipe-to-bell brace, which had been ripped loose from the leadpipe, and tapping the receiver-to-bell brace for 8-32 and fitting a thumbscrew. She wasn't too crazy about dealing with the valve section bolts (I'm short 3, and they're some weird unobtainable thread, so they're going to get similar treatment at some point.)

[LargeTuba]

That's one good looking tuba!

[donn]

It's Italian, so, of course!

[bloke]

This might be my lazy side posting this, but I would probably rather just leave a few dozen little tiny eaten-into places, than to buff the whole bell down to as thin as those few dozen places, just to make it look nice.

[bort2.0]

Socially distanced tuba repair -- fix it so it looks good from 6 feet away.

[the elephant]

This might be my lazy side posting this, but I would probably rather just leave a few dozen little tiny eaten-into places, than to buff the whole bell down to as thin as those few dozen places, just to make it look nice.

Lazy? Not at all.

I would roll it out with the Fast Eddie and then carefully burnish out the easier folds against a bell iron. I wouldn't touch that at all with a buffer. Kalison bell flares are thin.

[donn]

Yeah, lacquer removal would be a very interesting idea if the lacquer could just dissolve or something, but, indeed, the brass is thin. Not looking like new is fine - I prefer a little character, though the character of messed up lacquer is not my favorite. One of the annoying things, is that at this point it's protecting a lot of the corrosion.

[the elephant]

Lacquer stripper pretty much dissolves lacquer. You do not remove lacquer with a buffing machine.