Conn Sousaphone numbers

[Hank74]

I wanted to ask anyone with expertise on the Conn Sousaphones what do the numbers mean on their models. I've seen 20K, 14K, 36K, etc. Is there a special meaning to a number? Is there a significance among higher or lower numbers. I'm considering getting a Conn Sousa and would like to know more before making a decision.

[Kirley]

20K - large body with short-action valves
14K - regular body with regular valves
36K - regular fiberglass body with regular valves

Others you didn't mention:

38K - large body with regular valves
40K(vintage) - large body with 4 regular valves
40K(new) - large body with 4 short-action valves
22K - large fiberglass body with short-action valves

There are others but they're much less common.

[Hank74]

Thank you, but what's the difference between the short action and regular valves?

[Kirley]

Just found this on the youtubes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNyJafH8hVI

[bloke]

26K and 28K, I'm thinking, were the 3 and 4 valve E-flat sousaphones...and they used the same bell as the 14K B-flat.

32K was a more heavily-braced (bracing similar to 38K) version of the 14K.

The "Elkhart" sousaphones (and many of the Conn stencil/store-brand sousaphones) were usually 14K sousaphones.

There were also some 14K-lookin' sousaphones (store-brand stencils) with a smaller valveset bore size...maybe roughly the same bore size as King.

Numbers higher than 40 (up in the 40's) were Jumbo (crazy-big) sousaphones...I'm guessing the Jumbo's featured the same bore size as the 2XJ tubas - .772"...??

TMI: https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/ConnSousaModels.html

fun pics: https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/ConnLooksSousa.html

[jtm]

It’s great to have this all in one place. Mine has short pistons with offset buttons, so I guess it’s a 20k.

[iiipopes]

The Conn Loyalist has much information:
https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/

[bloke]

In the past, I've bought leaky-valves 38K sousaphones (particularly those which featured the larger 26" diameter bells) and transplanted salvaged good-condition 22K (short-action fiberglass body) valvesets on to them.

(There is a length discrepancy - as valves and lower mouthpipe consume more bugle length, but as long as the shorter-length short-action valvesets' main slides are also transplanted, the length discrepancy is addressed.)

This strategy achieved TWO things:
- the elimination of leaky valves
- the conversion of same-body-as-20K sousaphones to a "short-action" sousaphone...so they could be easily sold to high school bands.

As so many band directors are "yamabots" (ie. automatically - and with little-to-no consideration - choose one brand), many are ALSO "short-action-bots".

[sdloveless]

It's a crappy photo of a photo (I'll make a better scan later and post it to the " My Tuba & I, Post Yours & You" thread), but I think this is a 36k. Anyone care to tell me how wrong I am? The link is publicly accessible if the embedded image isn't working.

Anyway, this was my marching horn all through high school. The photo was taken during the fall semester of 1992.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/4fua5DzVJdBesUvc7

[Kirley]

I could be wrong but it looks to me like that's actually the King version.
At some point after the King-Conn conglomeration they stopped making proper 36Ks and just rebadged the King fiberglass horn as a Conn.
I'm not an expert on the timeline for all that.

[bloke]

You may be technically correct, but - practically-speaking - wrong.
After the Elkhart-designed/manufactured 36K (.734" bore / 24" bell) model was shelved,
UMI (or whatever they were named, at that time) began selling KING 2370 fiberglass sousaphones SELF-STENCILED as "Conn 36K" (in order to fill out the - mostly: decimated - Conn line with a sousaphone).
What you are holding in the picture - PARTS-WISE - is a KING fiberglass sousaphone (.687" bore / 26" bell), but may have been DESIGNATED as a Conn 36K.
This is very confusing, and has caused quite a few stores/repair shops to order the wrong parts to repair customers' sousaphones.
UMI should have NEVER (so soon after shelving a model) named ANOTHER model with the SAME model number as the one that was JUST shelved.
Personally, I believe that the model number (for the King/Conn) should have been "23K", as that model number had never previously been used, and because it also could subtly referred to the same-sousaphone KING model number, 2350.

Here is an online picture of a KING fiberglass sousaphone, which (even though your King-made sousaphone may have been designated as a "Conn 36K") was actually made completely from KING parts:



====================================

random:
My own (fiberglass) sousaphone consists of a Conn (Elkhart production) 36K body/bell fitted with a 1920's Conn model 40K FOUR-valve valveset.
fwiw... The 40K body did not go to waste; I fitted it with a 22K (fiberglass) short-action valveset - which defacto "converted" it to a model 20K - and sold it to a school band program.

It's a crappy photo of a photo (I'll make a better scan later and post it to the " My Tuba & I, Post Yours & You" thread), but I think this is a 36k. Anyone care to tell me how wrong I am? The link is publicly accessible if the embedded image isn't working.

Anyway, this was my marching horn all through high school. The photo was taken during the fall semester of 1992.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/4fua5DzVJdBesUvc7

[sdloveless]

I do think you are correct. When I came across this photo recently a few quick Googly searches for "Conn Sousaphone" returned an image of a "36k" that looked just like it. Searching for "36k" now results in images of horns that look like mine, and older horns that are definitely not the same. My own recollection is that we had a few of these and they were at least a year or two old when I started high school in '89.

[Hank74]

So both the 20K and 38K are the same size in terms of the body and bell, except for the valves?

[iiipopes]

So both the 20K and 38K are the same size in terms of the body and bell, except for the valves?

I had the impression from having played both, albeit separated by a couple of decades, that the bell throat of the 38K was a little larger than the 20K, although the bell on the 38K was 24 inches in diameter (was 26 inches optional?) instead of 26 inches on the 20K. This perception may have been due to the difference in rim diameter. Please correct me.

[Mithosphere]

So both the 20K and 38K are the same size in terms of the body and bell, except for the valves?

The only difference between these two models is the valve section and bell diameter.

[Hank74]

Could one have a 26" bell on the 38K?

[Kirley]

Could one have a 26" bell on the 38K?

Yes, I believe that was an option. But most of them that I've come across, including my 38K and 40K (same horn but with a 4th valve), have a 24" bell.

Being tall, I always prefer the smallest bell possible. I don't need any help banging into branches, overhangs, doorways, etc. Another reason why I love my helicon.

[Hank74]

Haha, I'm tall too at 6'3". What about you?

[Kirley]

Only 6' 2".

[matthewmarnold]

Hmm, I had the same question -- my old brass Conn sousy dates from '59/'60 and has "Made in Elkhart" stamped on the 24 inch bell. It has three regular pistons. BBb. Anyone know what model it might be?