York versus York Master

[RenoDoc]

I grew in in Michigan so I've been trying to read up more on the history of York tubas, mostly from their Wikipedia page. I'm a relative newbie on this so please forgive and ignorance. I'm trying to understand which York tubas were made in Grand Rapids versus which instruments were made eventually in Europe. So a few quick questions:
1) What are the differences between a York tuba and a York Master tuba?
2) Before 1940, were all York tubas made in Grand Rapids Michigan?

Much Obliged

[bloke]

Most of the York Master tubas that I’ve seen were built by B/M Symphonic (aka: Boehm and Meinl, if autocorrect doesn’t mess it up, while I’m in the midst of posting) in Geretsried.
Those instruments seem to have shown up around the same time that the York plant was just about completely shuttered. I recall a shiny-new 3-valve front-action being owned by the Memphis Park Commission Band, and probably purchased around or before 1970, with a recording bell and a 19mm bore.
The large recording bell model closely resembled one of the Michigan models, but I do not know the model numbers of the Michigan models well enough to tell you which one, without clicking around the web and digging up the answer.
Others, here, know those Michigan York numbers by heart.

[RenoDoc]

Thanks Bloke. I am looking at a York Master tuba that the seller is telling me is from the 1920's but given the serial number and the engraving, I'm thinking it might be made by B/M Symphonic.

[bloke]

If the top caps feature large donut felt washers (larger than King), it's a B/M Symphonic.
The factory felt donut washers were dyed blue.

I'm fairly certain that the pistons themselves will interchange with the earliest Hirsbrunner (HB-2P, etc.) and Meinl-Weston (Nirschl-valveset 2145/2165) piston C tubas' pistons.

[lost]

I grew in in Michigan so I've been trying to read up more on the history of York tubas, mostly from their Wikipedia page. I'm a relative newbie on this so please forgive and ignorance. I'm trying to understand which York tubas were made in Grand Rapids versus which instruments were made eventually in Europe. So a few quick questions:
1) What are the differences between a York tuba and a York Master tuba?
2) Before 1940, were all York tubas made in Grand Rapids Michigan?

Much Obliged

1. Size and who made it. All high end york instruments were transferred to b/m after 1942 and gave slightly different dimensions and playing qualities.
2. Yes.

The b/m serials do not correspond to York dates but your seller seems to think so. Check out yorkloyalist.com for more info on tuba models. It's really a helpful site!

[RenoDoc]

Wow- Cool site. Thank you!

[RenoDoc]

BTW- this the horn in question. They thought the horn was from the 1920's but given the serial number the told me (582782) I'm thinking it's not.
https://reverb.com/item/20552187-york-m ... -bb-582782

[bloke]

just one man’s opinion:

The pictures appear to be oddly surreal, and the price appears to be oddly huge.

The details scream B/M.

[RenoDoc]

Thanks- those were my instincts but I wanted to run it by some people who are way smarter than me in this area.

[KingTuba1241X]

That's about $10k more than I would pay for it. Nice looking restored condition likely.

[Yorkboy]

Yorkmaster.

Valves, ferrules, pistons, bell collar, bell screw flanges, taller "European style" bottom bow -

I'd bet the ranch on it.

P.S. - for that price, it had better make me breakfast, too.

[LargeTuba]

Does it come with the York sound or just the name?

[bloke]

One of them - in nice condition, a nice finish. and both bells sports some well-known New York player provenance.
These - typically, lacking provenance - have never jazzed me, and their 19mm bore valve sets are set up with the fourth slide in an awkward place, so - even if they are bought for a song (in trashed condition, etc.) - their valvesets require more work than usual to re-purpose.

“York” sound...?? I’ve only owned a York E-flat tuba, so I’m the wrong person to ask.
========
As far as a 4-valve 5/4-size B-flat tubas (not many different models of these were created, vs. 6/4) are concerned, I used to spend a little bit of energy ridiculing the 50 - 60 year old Bessons, because of their sort-of ugly appearance, but – having spent some time playing them – they (when found with NOT worn-out valves) are amazing. I’ve got one in pieces in a box to straighten out and (probably) keep. As is the 3+1 compensating ~recording~ Bessons are pretty rare, so I’m having to build one with parts from two different Besson instruments. There are very few intonation quirks, the sound and projection are amazing, and – unlike non-compensating 4-valve tubas – they are fully chromatic.

[matt g]

B&M also made some of the Marzan lineup also.

I remember seeing in a catalog, back in the late 1980s or early 1990s, a B&M piston BBb for sale with 0.750 bore valves.

How many of those exist and how similar are they to the York Master?

Regarding the horn in question here, it’s a wonderful restoration of the horn, but definitely a lesson in terms of return on investment.

[Dan Schultz]

B&M also made some of the Marzan lineup also.

I remember seeing in a catalog, back in the late 1980s or early 1990s, a B&M piston BBb for sale with 0.750 bore valves.

How many of those exist and how similar are they to the York Master?

Regarding the horn in question here, it’s a wonderful restoration of the horn, but definitely a lesson in terms of return on investment.

As far as I know the 'York Master', Bohm & Meinl 'Symphonic', and the Marzan tubas with the .750" bore were all made in the B & H factory. They share the same open bugles. Some had detachable upright and/or recording bells. The Marzan rotary tubas have the same open bugle. The only recognizable difference is the Marzan horns had the main tuning slide to above the back bow. The piston models I've seen had five digit serial numbers and the Marzans usually had 69 through 71 as the first two digits.

I don't think these horns had any association with the Grand Rapids York tubas.

[Doc]

Looks B&M York Master (NOT York) to me. And if you are thinking of paying that absolutely insane price, can I interest you in a Conn 20J for a mere $8750??? Tuning bit included, of course.

[RenoDoc]

Definitely not going to buy it but was trying to figure out why they were pricing it that high!

[bloke]

I wonder if they might have sold more of those things had they labeled them:

Master of the Yorkiverse...(??)



ACTUAL PERTINENT CONTENT:

This was not the only B/M Symphonic instrument in B/M Symphonic's "York Master" line-up.
I've seen cheapo stuff on eBay with that name engraved on it (obviously, German-made),
and I bought and re-sold a York Master recording bell E-flat tuba (made by B/M Symphonic)
with "York Master" engraved on it.

[Doc]

Definitely not going to buy it but was trying to figure out why they were pricing it that high!

I didn't think you were, but I couldn't resist.

Crazy price, ain't it?

[bloke]

Were it that I were the seller - and someone paid that price to me, I would consider it to be a very good (and not-crazy-at-all) price.