Old Man Tubas... a list or repository?

[Estubist]

This is a really light Tuba. 4,4 kg (> 9 lbs). But will it sound like a Tuba?

[matt g]

I’ve heard some of those plastic tubas online. They make sounds, and they aren’t offensive per se, but they aren’t as good as a fully brass horn. The pitch often seems off on these as well and they aren’t all that robust. I picked up a plastic trumpet a few years back when my daughter was starting out for me to play along, and a brace gave way under adult use. I’d be even more concerned with a tuba and the multitude of braces there.

The ultimate nail in the coffin for plastic tubas is that brass ones made in mainland China don’t cost much more. This isn’t all that surprising since the cost of materials isn’t likely a huge difference and labor to make and assemble them is probably not a huge difference either. When (if) a buyer factors in maintenance, repairs, and residual value, a brass tuba is likely cheaper.

Specific to that plastic YBB-621 clone, I think the brass horn weighs about 7 or 8kg?

[bloke]

They should make sousaphones out of plastic...oh...wait...nevermind...

I might (??) actually look at perfect PLASTIC bugle-interior-copy of a YCB-826 with an ALL-BRASS (very high-grade) valveset...for a total price of under $1000 (with a brass-colored or silver-colored finish on the plastic).

[matt g]

Roughly the first half of a sousaphone is brass, and that makes sense from a maintenance and playability perspective. Where the bore is larger and requires more brass, the swap to fiber cloth and resin makes sense, because that’s where the weight savings would payoff the best.

A 6/4 plastic bugle with brass from the receiver to the smallest inner branch would still probably be $4,000 to bring to market.

[Doc]

I don’t have a Conn 10J anymore to measure, but that would definitely be one.

Mine was fun and easy to play. Maybe not the finest tuba that money could buy, but certainly worth having and playing.

[Doc]

They should make sousaphones out of plastic...oh...wait...nevermind...

I might (??) actually look at perfect PLASTIC bugle-interior-copy of a YCB-826 with an ALL-BRASS (very high-grade) valveset...for a total price of under $1000 (with a brass-colored or silver-colored finish on the plastic).

The Sellmansberger OMT model. Nicknamed "The Bloke-o-Phone."

[Schlepporello]

There have been a number of discussions that included talk of small tubas, lightweight tubas, old man tubas, old woman tubas, etc..............

What's the matter, Puddin'? Is that 5-valved 496 getting too heavy for ya now?
By the way, knowing that WW&BW is selling mine currently for $11,496 makes me awfully glad that I bought mine when I did for just $9,000. Admittedly, I'm noticing the weight difference now, but I love the sound it makes!

[Doc]

There have been a number of discussions that included talk of small tubas, lightweight tubas, old man tubas, old woman tubas, etc..............

What's the matter, Puddin'? Is that 5-valved 496 getting too heavy for ya now?

Not at all, Sweetpea. It's my favorite tuba to play! (The blokespecial 186 runs a close 2nd.) But it is something to consider for many of us sooner or later. Plus, having a handy dandy little tuba can be convenient even if your health doesn't require it.

By the way, knowing that WW&BW is selling mine currently for $11,496 makes me awfully glad that I bought mine when I did for just $9,000. Admittedly, I'm noticing the weight difference now, but I love the sound it makes!

No joke. Makes me wish I'd gotten a 497 when it was in reach. Today, not so much!

[DandyZ629]

I'll throw the Conn 3J on the list for effortless and easy to play. Mine is an absolute GEM. On the screws intonation, very malleable sound, and plenty of presence when needed.

[GC]

As I had to give up my beloved 25J because of weight issues and am now having issues hauling around a JP377 comp 3+1 Eb in a heavy gig bag, I'm thinking one of the current crop of YBB-103-bugle-copy 4-valve BBb 3/4 sized horns may be my next stop. The MackBrass, Packer, and Eastman horns look especially interesting, but the Eastman, considering the size it is, has pretty much priced itself out. Also the JP379B (the Packer Piggy) looks like a good alternative, but the same weight as my Eb.

I expect to eventually have to switch to euphonium, which I would enjoy, too.

[hrender]

I wish it was easier to find the weights on various models of horn. It would help out.

[matt g]

I wish it was easier to find the weights on various models of horn. It would help out.

It’s odd that they don’t publish that spec considering all the other ones they publish.

[jtm]

Does my CC Scherzer/Sander count?
38" tall, 16.5" bell, 22lbs. Or is that basically the same as a 186?

edit: nope — almost as big as a 188

[Doc]

I wish it was easier to find the weights on various models of horn. It would help out.

Although they don’t carry every tuba known to man, Thomann does (possibly) the best job with this.

A nod of thanks to German attention to technical detail.

[Mary Ann]

I'd like to find a 10# Eb that plays in tune. I can blow it, just can't lift it. Enjoy your health while you have it because you never know when it is going to suddenly wave bye-bye. I always figured tuba would be my retirement instrument because it is so much easier to play than horn, but when my friend sends me the Bb single I'm waiting on, it looks like that is going to be my retirement instrument because at least I'll be able to lift it.

[donn]

A bunch more alleged weights can be found on a Tubenet thread "HOW MUCH DOES YOUR TUBA WEIGH?"

My BBb Kalison is similar in size but weighs significantly less than the old Holton, but the larger difference is that it has an upright bell with hardly any flare, which makes it much easier to carry around for more than about 10 paces. I think even in its case it may not be quite as much of a drag to carry as the Holton, but honestly I haven't done much of that.

[greenbean]

Here are some Old Man ideas.

--Cerveny x83 models. Small bells (15-16," usually), about 33" tall, and 17-18 lb.

--Mirafone 185 BBb. Like a 186 but smaller bell (15"), 1" shorter, smaller bore, and only 18 lb! It is easy to hold and SO easy to play.

[2nd tenor]

As I had to give up my beloved 25J because of weight issues and am now having issues hauling around a JP377 comp 3+1 Eb in a heavy gig bag, I'm thinking one of the current crop of YBB-103-bugle-copy 4-valve BBb 3/4 sized horns may be my next stop. The MackBrass, Packer, and Eastman horns look especially interesting, but the Eastman, considering the size it is, has pretty much priced itself out. Also the JP379B (the Packer Piggy) looks like a good alternative, but the same weight as my Eb.

I expect to eventually have to switch to euphonium, which I would enjoy, too.

As you’re prepared to try a Euphonium might you consider trying another form of Eb Bass? My own non-comp three valve Eb Bass is very easy to move, is sonorous (as is a Euphonium) and has a useful Bass range. (It’s an old Besson 677, has a 12” bell, is 29&1/2” long and is roughly 11lb with mouthpiece fitted. My Band’s Sovereign has a 19” Bell, is 35” long and is roughly 19lb with mouthpiece fitted - the Sovereign’s awkward extra bulk makes its extra weight quite noticeably less manageable.)

As a Brass Band player all of the music that I’m called on to play is in treble clef. However, of the relatively small amount of Bass Clef music that I have (for personal recreation and development) virtually all of it can be played on a three valve Eb, ie. in practice using a three valve Eb isn’t too restrictive. I would suspect that most people already know this but all sheet music printed for Brass in Treble Clef is perfectly playable on an Eb Bass, just add three flats to the key signature and read as in Bass Clef. If you’re being accompanied by a say a Piano then obviously your part will need to be for brass pitched in Eb. Armed with that knowledge there’s a vast amount of music out there waiting for you.

Yep, I would quite like a fourth valve but for me a fourth valve would be a helpful plus rather than a clear necessity. It’s perhaps stating the obvious - apologies if so - but having a basic three valve Eb Bass that you can play quite a lot of music on is far better than having a superior instrument that you either can’t (physically) play at all or can only barely play for short periods of time.

Maybe that simple, economical and effective alternative choice is a compromise that’s worthy of your consideration?

[2nd tenor]

Duplicate post

[bisontuba]

Done very quickly from ‘another site’...you’re welcome...

Weight of tubas:

Conn 25J, 31 pounds.

MW Thor Silver 19" bell 27.3 lbs

Willson 3050 RZ -- 25.5 lbs

Alex 163 5v Hand Made raw brass, highly modified 24.4 lbs

Alex 163 4v Hand Made raw brass 22.6 lbs

ZO 6/4 Silver York model Hand Made 23.8 lbs

Gronitz lacquer piston F 18.3 lbs

B&S PT8 6v Gold brass hand raw brass made17.7 lbs

B&S PT8 5v hand made raw brass 16.2 lbs

Mack Brass lacquer 5v F tuba (B&S style) 19.0 lbs

Cerveny 6/4 Giant Helicon 4v F 14.4 lbs

ZO lacquer funky 5v travel Tuba in F 13.3 lbs

MACK Brass lacquer 4v travel F tuba 5.4 lbs

5450 in silver plate weighs about 27lbs.

Willson 3050 RZ -- 25.5 lbs

Conn 25J, 31 pounds.

Marzan (large piston CC): 24 lbs

Cerveny 653: 14 lbs

Miraphone 1291 CC: 22 lbs

Neptune (rotary): 25 lbs

Miraphone 188 (gold brass): ~22 lbs?

VMI/MW 30: ~20 lbs

Rudy Meinl 4/4 CC: low 20s

Willson 3050RZ: 25.3 lbs

Weril 4 piston valves, 3/4 CC tuba = 14 lbs

Conn 28J - 23#

Miraphone 191-4V - 23#

Wisemann 900 @ 23.2 lbs

Conn 2J CC - 16 lbs.

Conn 32J BBb - 24 lbs.

Holton 109, 31 lbs.

B&F kaiser BBb = 9,5kg (20.9lbs)

Yamaha 621 CC - 15.6 lbs.

BMB J 445 F (large bell) - 19.2

Miraphone 186 5U CC (1965 vintage) - 20.1 lbs.

Schuster Army 4RV BBb ............. 14.8#

King 1241 Tuba 4FP BBb ............ 19.5#

King 1235B 3FP Eb .................. 15.3#

King 1258 Sousaphone 4FP BBb ... 22.4#

Cerveny CCB-481 4RV CC ......... 17.5#

York Helicon 3FP BBb .............. 23.2#

Cerveny Tornister 3RV BBb ......... 7.4#

Cerveny Kaiser 3RV BBb ........... 19.4#

Cerveny Kaiser 4RV F/Eb .......... 15.4#

Cerveny Helicon 4RV F ............. 13.2#

Cerveny Kaiser Helicon 4RV F ..... 16.5#

Lignatone Tuba 4RV F ............... 12.8#

J. Low Kaiser Tuba 4RV BBb ....... 17.8#

York Monster 3TP Eb ............... 15.7#

York Monster 3FP Eb ............... 15.6#

Pepper Helicon 3FP Eb ............ 12.5#

Buescher Helicon 3FP Eb ......... 13.5#

Gronitz Tuba 4RV BBb ............. 17.0#

Yamaha YCB-661 5RV CC .......... 21.2#

Keiv Helicon 3RV BBb ............. 16.8#

B&S Model 101 4RV CC ............ 17.2#

St. Pete Model 200 3RV BBb ...... 14.4#

Conn 20-J 3TP BBb ................ 27.5#

Nirschl Kaiser Bb 5valve+trigger (B&F copy) 26.4lbs

B&S F 5valve 15.4lbs

Nirschl York weighs 24.6 pounds.

Yamayork - 20.7 pounds

B&S 3301 4/4 BBb (4v): 19 lb

B&S Musica tall BBb (4v): 20 lb

GB-50/G-50 5-valve CC/Stofer 5-valve CC...........23 lbs.

A fiberglass Olds: 15 lb

Mirafone 186 BBb (1967): 18.0

Mirafone 186 BBb (1974): 18.75

Miraphone 182 BBb (1997): 19.25

26 lbs for my John Packer JP379CC Sterling C Tuba.

B&S 4197 24#

Mirafone 184-5U 17#

Wessex Grand - 5 valve - lacquer - 30.4 lbs.

Dalyan Apollo CC 4/4, four valve: 21 pounds.

B&S "Musica" tall 4/4 CC 5v: 21.6 lbs