So What's Wrong With the Conn 2xJ Bugle?

[Doc]

Those cottage cheese valve buttons always gross me out

Yep. Not a fan. But I dig that tuba.

I'm not interested in Martins.

If you were, you could find one that (intonation-wise) plays circles around a 2XJ. But that is not the point of this thread.

For some these issues are more like characteristics rather than problems, but some guys hate these horns. Again, what it is about these horns that makes them so popular with some and so unpopular with others.

As a fan and owner, I've always viewed these issues as being characteristics, with some models being better/worse than others. Outside of leaky valves and poor assembly (both seemingly very common), I'm not sure what exactly gives them those inherent characteristics. I've always believed that it was mostly due to the leadpipe design and smushed valve ports. Poor assembly and old, leaky valves just seem to magnify the problem. So... your idea about the bugle being useful when combined with new leadpipe, valves, and bell resonates with me. Seems like it ought to work. Can't be any worse than it already is.

[the elephant]

I'm not interested in Martins.

If you were, you could find one that (intonation-wise) plays circles around a 2XJ. But that is not the point of this thread.

Can't be any worse than it already is.

These two are actually very good, even with all the damage.

The valves do not leak and appear to be just about new, meaning that the wimpy kids at that school defaulted to the recording bell, three-banger Kings that the band director kept trying to get me to take off her hands when I grabbed these two 24Js. (The market for a four-valved Conn is better than for a three-valved anything, in my personal experience.) The Kings were a lot newer but featured some shot-to-héll valves, badly bent slides, and crushed body branches. The Conns look pretty scarred up, with awful leadpipes. (Four ferrules each!) The valves were slightly damaged, but were restored to "like new" function after an hour with the Ferree's slugs and mandrels I bought for these valves. (I work on a lot of these short stroke valves, so I bought the tools to make life easier.)

[tubaing]

I know this is VERY helpful...

Some time in the past year, I believe I remember someone posting a South American Frankentuba built out a Conn 6/4. I'll have to see if I can find the pics. Looked amazing.

[matt g]

I know this is VERY helpful...

Some time in the past year, I believe I remember someone posting a South American Frankentuba built out a Conn 6/4. I'll have to see if I can find the pics. Looked amazing.

I just went looking for the same post. It was a gentleman from Brazil. The work looked top notch. I remember it being on Facebook. I couldn’t find it.

@the elephant, Adam Crowe was selling a 20k body with an M&M valve set and a Kanstul bell. It was a BBb horn, but another reference point nonetheless.

[bloke]

Since the goal is liquidation...(no?)
What about just putting them in really good condition (not "restoring" them, and - if sorta shiny - attempting to save whatever's left of the factory epoxy lacquer) - without morphing them into something else, and just selling them for what they are?

It seems as though we're in a dixieland "lull" (as the last two dixieland revivals seem to have been in the 1950's and 1980's), but are there still any (typically: west-coast-located) two-cornet bands that - note-for-note - read those Lu Watters books, and tend to use 6/4 recording basses...??

...so (if "yes"...??) what about (once ready to sell) advertising them on traditional jazz musician sites/fb pages...??

...or what about (if such exist...??) similar Texas/midwestern bands polka/German music sites/pages...??

https://syncopatedtimes.com/news/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/417911128250424

https://www.facebook.com/groups/332687153418787

[the elephant]

… the goal is liquidation...(no?)

Not really. Currently, there is no goal, hence this discussion post.

[Doc]

These two are actually very good, even with all the damage.

At least you have something decent to work with.

The valves do not leak and appear to be just about new

Those could be of great value to someone who has worn out, leaky valves on their 2XJ.

The Conns look pretty scarred up, with awful leadpipes. (Four ferrules each!)

[LargeTuba]

I could use some 2xj parts. I'm trying to flip SA valves to front action... But this conversation has led me to believe they are inferior. If the valve works well and has a good seal, why do they get so much hate?

[matt g]

I could use some 2xj parts. I'm trying to flip SA valves to front action... But this conversation has led me to believe they are inferior. If the valve works well and has a good seal, why do they get so much hate?

Because the bore distortion may cause some acoustical weirdness. The cross-sectional area of the ports is equivalent to the round bore of intended diameter, but acoustically, it’s probably not quite right (determined by the minor axis or something similar).

[bloke]

Wouldn’t it be interesting were there some tiny little E-flat bottom bow in someone’s junk that is a bit smaller than a 2XJ top bow, but lined up geometrically across the span?
...and - perhaps - the chimney portion of the tiny bell would substitute for the straight chunk...(??)

[bort2.0]

Make it rotary
Cut it to CC
One piece bell
But not too much pancake to the bell

Then I'll be interested. I've always thought the forearm-looking inner branches were pretty cool looking. Even if they make my back sore just looking at them!

[Mithosphere]

That's a lot to read at the moment, but...

There was a guy that cut a 20J to CC - three valves. I think I remember him saying it played the same or better. There's a website that it was on, I had it bookmarked somewhere a few years back, but now I don't know where it is.

http://forums.chisham.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=26292

Also, there was a guy down in South America that had slapped a fixed upright bell AND rotary valves on the 2xJ body. I'm sure it's in Klaus' images. I think it was even for sale on eBay at one point.

Anyway, here are some photos:

https://imgur.com/gallery/tFeutBZ

[the elephant]

Bumping with this photo:

[LargeTuba]

Bumping with this photo:

He's selling it, and at a good price. His videos also sound great!

I was looking to buy it but I think he said it was pretty unwieldy.

[LargeTuba]

Kniffen Tuba 2.0

[GC]

Now THAT's interesting. I wonder how it plays?

[the elephant]

Kniffen Tuba 2.0

I see a set of 2xJ branches with some other piston valve section, or a 3xJ, with what looks to be a 2165 or Holton bell. Any info?

[bort2.0]

Now THAT's interesting. I wonder how it plays?

Without a leadpipe, not at all!

[LargeTuba]

Kniffen Tuba 2.0

Is it the same horn? (It was a 36J, I think, with a Miraphone Siegfried bell?) Or is this another 3xJ (or a 2xJ body with different valves?) with a 2165 bell?

Its a 36J with a Fafner bell I think.

Before the new bell.

Its Daniel Ridder, so we're basically guaranteed a sound check

[GC]

Now THAT's interesting. I wonder how it plays?

Without a leadpipe, not at all!

Well. That's embarrassing.

Gives it an awfully clean look, though . . .