Buyer beware: we're still in a pandemic

[BopEuph]

*Fixed with updated information from affected party.

I talked to Mark about this, and he gave me permission to go ahead. I'm going to do my best to just make this a neutral PSA, but here are the facts:

• On Monday, Aug. 16, a poster on TubeNet asked about playing tuba after recovering from Covid. He had some residual issues affecting his playing, and how he's getting winded and tired faster than usual, and fits of dry coughing.

• Another TubeNet user mentioned that he had just recently bought a mouthpiece from OP, and it was very irresponsible of him to not disclose that information while selling mouthpieces.

• At this point, I can only assume there was an argument that broke out, but I'll never know, because:

• New admin deleted the followup posts for it getting "grossly off topic,"

• Person calling out OP was given a warning for "bullying and harassment" (not a ban warning)

Also his words: "The admin thought my concerns were valid."

Apparently, it was also noted OP was COVID-19 negative before making sales, but I think that's still a serious thing to go through and not even mention it. And I feel it's unacceptable to think it was at all okay to not mention you were Covid positive before selling used mouthpieces.

So, when buying used gear, assume it's been contaminated, and wash everything thoroughly. Especially mouthpieces.

[LeMark]

On a related note, I don't know when I'm going to start teaching face to face again, but it's interesting to think about how much of my daily routine will have to be changed for a long time

Face to face lessons, at least at the school in small practice rooms, may not be allowed anymore

Buzzing in lessons. that's a scary thought

If a kid sounds odd and they normally don't, I never gave it a second thought about saying "give me your tuba" to test play it to see if the problem is them or something wrong with the horn

It's going to be very different for a long time.

So yes, I think it's a good discussion to have, I wasn't following the post on Tubenet, so I really don't know anything about it other than what I was filled in on, but I think the title of this post sums it up well. Has it ever been released how long the virus stays active in a dark cool environment like inside a tuba or a mouthpiece?

[BopEuph]

On a related note, I don't know when I'm going to start teaching face to face again, but it's interesting to think about how much of my daily routine will have to be changed for a long time

Face to face lessons, at least at the school in small practice rooms, may not be allowed anymore

Buzzing in lessons. that's a scary thought

At the moment, the AFM and the National Association for Music Educators have differing standards and guidelines for safety. Problem is, the NAfME studies have seemed to dealt with college music majors, likely each instrument having studied with the same teacher, so techniques are likely very similar.

NafMe is using coverings over bells and flute ends, and wearing face masks with holes for the mouthpiece, and specifying that that's enough for slowing Covid transmission. The AFM is suggesting 12' of distance with wind instruments, and if possible, plexi shields. Some band director on Reddit told me if I think there's any kind of air leaks from poor embouchures, I'm "obviously not a brass musician."

I like the more stringent suggestions from AFM, but it's obviously not always possible.

So yes, I think it's a good discussion to have, I wasn't following the post on Tubenet, so I really don't know anything about it other than what I was filled in on, but I think the title of this post sums it up well. Has it ever been released how long the virus stays active in a dark cool environment like inside a tuba or a mouthpiece?

The copper in brass is very effective as an antimicrobial. Problem is, I think SARS strains stay on brass for up to 40 minutes, which doesn't mean it's immediate. But a raw brass tuba sitting around is probably pretty safe, and I'd assume the lacquer makes it significantly less safe...it stays on plastics for a significant period. As for silver--I know silver is antimicrobial, but I don't know how long. Stainless steel, if I remember correctly, can keep the virus alive for up to a week, maybe longer. So don't be buying any Loud Mouthpieces for a while!

[Levaix]

For mouthpieces and such, just wash it before you play it. It's probably fine after sitting in the mail for a couple days, but generally speaking I rinse off used mouthpieces before playing anyway.

Obviously a little harder to do that with a whole tuba. :/

[Yadent]

Soap and hot water for mouthpieces. Viral outer membrane is lipid based. Soap breaks that down nicely. As a dentist, I used to autoclave every used mouthpiece I acquired. Now just soap+water. Same solution should work nicely with instruments......and hands.

[BopEuph]

I agree with all the sentiments on that, and I treat every incoming package, grocery item, etc., as if it's contaminated, but it would at least be nice if I got a heads up so I could be extra careful with something that's definitely contaminated.

I'm not OCD at all, but have been trying to adopt OCD habits during this. All it takes is an overlooked surface to cross-contaminate something, and you've got Covid. Problem for me is, I'm not OCD and can overlook something easily, especially when I get content. I'd sure as hell want to make sure I nuke any chance of this virus.

[tubanews]

Although I get the content of this. I think there are underlying issues with that external thread. Im not going to quote any of it, but I think its someone else's problem.

[Dunelandmusic]

I’m wondering what the sign is that we are looking for that will signal an end to all of this?
Normal washing of a mouthpiece would be expected under any circumstances

[matt g]

Normal washing of a mouthpiece would be expected under any circumstances

I agree. To the credit of the poster elsewhere, he did state that he sanitized mouthpieces before shipping them out. Buyers should do the same on arrival simply because it’s been handled by at least a few people and been in contact with unknown items in transit.

I saw the original exchange on TN. While there was tension, deleting posts is kinda lame. The mod should’ve left the post and told them to play nice.

The question raised was valid (why are you selling mouthpieces without disclosing this information) and the rebuttal (I was negative when selling) was also valid. Both posts should’ve stayed to serve as a warning.

Extending that, if a website serves as the conduit for a transaction and something like coronavirus is transmitted (highly unlikely) via a sale, there is a chance that the website gets named collaterally in a lawsuit. I’m guessing it’s worthwhile to put something in text regarding “clean your stuff”, “disclose any illnesses within the last ___ months”, and “buyer beware” on all stuff posted in the for sale section

[bort2.0]

I remember "over there" a person was selling a tuba for a really long tine, and posted once something like 'hey sorry for the delay people, I had legionnaires' disease. Don't worry, I'm better now.'

I questioned that ('uh, isn't that super contagious?'), think I offended the guy ('bort, you dummy, I didn't play the tuba when I was sick'), and then we worked it out. Pretty sure nothing got deleted, guessing it's still there. History eraser not needed.

[hup_d_dup]

I remember "over there" a person was selling a tuba for a really long tine, and posted once something like 'hey sorry for the delay people, I had legionnaires' disease. Don't worry, I'm better now.'

Do you feel this is a fair characterization of this conversation? Here is the actual thread: http://forums.chisham.com/viewtopic.php ... 18#p686218

I questioned that ('uh, isn't that super contagious?'), think I offended the guy ('bort, you dummy, I didn't play the tuba when I was sick')

He did not call you a dummy. Again, check the thread.

Hup

[bort2.0]

Yep, exactly as I said, 100% accurate. Argh. Perhaps I shouldn't have been so lazy, and looked it up first. Thanks for pointing that out to me. Sorry about that, and sorry to PRO as well.

The 'you dummy' part was meant as a joke. I know he didn't call me a dummy. I think I just misremembered the "good to know" part. completely misremembered it. He was actually quite nice about all of it.

A few thoughts here:
1) Again, sorry. I was lazy and unintentionally got it all wrong.
2) Don't trust everything you read on the internet, not even on TubaForum!
3) If this exchange happened on the other board, it would get deleted and one or both of us would get banned, haha. I'm glad you pointed out my mistake, and happy to have it not scrubbed clean by the history eraser.

[Doc]

Some folks are rightly concerned, and some people like to whine and complain because they feel powerful by pointing out the faults of others. Which was it? Who cares?

I’ve purchased mouthpiece components and tubas during all this with ZERO FEAR. Why? Because I’m a responsible person doing what I have always done - I clean everything with soap, water, and bleach or vinegar prior to use, even if I trust the source.

COVID isn’t the first bad bug to ever come along. And they haven’t stopped making soap and water, so I’m not sure why anyone would complain. Unless, of course, a person is so irresponsible as to play used equipment right out of the box without cleaning it first. Would notice of sickness be nice? Sure, but not necessary if you are a responsible buyer.

[tbonesullivan]

I saw that thread, and saw the first post, but by the time I had gotten back, it had been "sanitized". So, I don't know what the timeline was, but from what I read it sounds like the guy selling the mouthpieces did not find out until later that he had been infected, after the sale had taken place. I also don't know if the timeframe overlapped when he would have been able to infect others, actively shedding virus.

[hup_d_dup]

If I buy a mouthpiece I don't much care if it comes from someone with COVID, nor does it matter if they tell me or not.

I assume every seller has the virus, and that no one cleans their mouthpieces before shipment.

The procedure to protect is fairly simple. COVID is not anthrax.

Hup

[tubamuphone]

Seems logical to sanitize new (to you) gear even when we're not in a global pandemic....I've bought two mouthpieces since March (one new and one used), I washed both with soap and water, I'm fine. Sure wish we could look at the original thread in its entirety...

I want to thank Mark for creating this space. I've been on the tubenet for over 20 years and the new strategic plan of heavy-handed redaction in the name of inclusion and fairness has been really difficult for me to watch. I'm kinda speechless about the whole thing...the irony is just too much. It's good to see some familiar names and avatars from both sides of the political aisle on this new platform.

Okay, back to lurking in the BBS shadows.

JB

[bloke]

Anything acquired – even new - can potentially have any sort of bacteria or virus on it that are on or in human beings...
...for that matter, virtually any chemical compound or substance as well.

bloke “… Well, maybe not kryptonite, but most of us are immune to that.”

[Doc]

If I buy a mouthpiece I don't much care if it comes from someone with COVID, nor does it matter if they tell me or not.

I assume every seller has the virus, and that no one cleans their mouthpieces before shipment.

The procedure to protect is fairly simple. COVID is not anthrax.

Hup

[djwpe]

I remember "over there" a person was selling a tuba for a really long tine, and posted once something like 'hey sorry for the delay people, I had legionnaires' disease. Don't worry, I'm better now.'

I questioned that ('uh, isn't that super contagious?'), think I offended the guy ('bort, you dummy, I didn't play the tuba when I was sick'), and then we worked it out. Pretty sure nothing got deleted, guessing it's still there. History eraser not needed.

Legionnaires disease is not transmitted person to person, but via aerosolization of water contaminated with legionella. Knowing this stuff is a professional hazard.

[Doc]

bloke “… Well, maybe not kryptonite, but most of us are immune to that.”

Speak for yourself...

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