Mouthpiece throats, dimensions and air management/capacity

[royjohn]

Well, today I tried all my mouthpieces to see if any of them required a little less air, because I'm having trouble getting through more than 2 measures of the Getchel #1 study (at MM=60) without a breath. Using the Bobo Symphonic (throat=7.5mm), the Loud LM-7 (8.35), the Benge 24AW (8.84??), a Helleberg 120 (8.1), a Yamaha 65 (8.35) and a few others, I can't really tell any difference. Slurred, a little less air than detached, but not enough to net me another whole measure. This horn (Karl Ziess Master Modelle) may not have the tightest valves, but it is quite playable, so I guess it's just all the air I've got is all the air I've got.

I had a big diaphragm surgery 10 years ago...6 inch diaphramatic hernia...recently had to see pulmonologist over a suspicious spot on my chest Xray...apparently I have above average lung capacity (over 3.5 L) for a 74 year old, but my diaphragm is a little high on the left side where they cut on it, so maybe some loss of capacity there.

So the questions:
1. Is my playing capacity normal or pretty reduced? Is it going to improve with practice and better efficiency? Need to go back to trumpet?

2. Am I right that all tuba mouthpieces are about all the same as far as air use is concerned?

Thanks for your thoughts.
-royjohn

[matt g]

Tuba playing air efficiency has a lot to do with actually breathing smartly with the phrasing.

You’re probably fine, given the circumstances.

Mouthpiece throat usually makes the biggest difference at the extremes of the end of the range.

[KingTuba1241X]

Mouthpiece cup depth makes just as much, if not more difference on air flow as well then the throat. I remember reading iiipopes' posts on the other board about this as well. Deeper cup pieces though "freer blowing" might sound nice, but I think you need a little resistance if you have air issues and shallower/medium cups help. Not exceeding 8.2mm throat will also help, and of course building lung power ultimately through a series of weekly rehearsals will be the best solution (with the right equipment) to help all of us get back into playing after a year or longer break.

[bloke]

I walked away from the musical-instrument-playin’ teaching profession decades ago, and - again - at least a decade after that. I don’t enjoy attempting to diagnose others’ problems, because I’m afraid that I’m probably misdiagnosing them. I don’t want to be classified as that hyphenated know-it-all thing. I prefer to just try to figure out how to solve my own playing problems.
The one general observation - that I believe I have observed correctly - is that often, too much emphasis is placed on air and not enough is placed on how efficiently the lips are trained to vibrate.
When lips are trained to vibrate really efficiently (not just robotic long tones, but long tones while delving into subtle changes in muscle tension which increase vibration), it probably doesn’t take as much air to make them vibrate more, and when they vibrate more - more sound is produced with less air expended, and thus a tankful of air can be made to last longer.
Though I have stated many times that #’s 1 - 6 out of 10 (for picking out a tuba) are intonation tendencies, probably #’s 7 and 8 have to do with “how eager an instrument is to vibrate“ (as anything that helps the air column to vibrate more - whether it’s the air column itself or my own lips - surely makes the job of producing sound easier).
I’m just like you: I don’t like running out of air, either.
Have I said anything wrong, here?
Do I also like mouthpieces that seem to encourage easier and more vibration?
...Sure, but it would be really easy for me to appear to be a mouthpiece prostitute, here.

[donn]

My theory is that if you just breathe through your mouthpiece, you'll find that none of them have a small enough throat to affect air flow a bit. That isn't to doubt that some mouthpieces may suck up your air faster, but if so it's likely a combination of factors. There's the mystery of the backbore, and no doubt some sort of balance between different parts of the mouthpiece.

As for whether it's all about air or all about lips, I reckon either would be useless without the other.

[bloke]

Per usual, I should’ve stuck to the topic.

Assuming a reasonable size range of 8 to 9 mm, I don’t notice much of a difference, other than in how difficult it is to control things...no noticeable difference in "how long I can play without having to breathe".,,THOUGH I could imagine that "struggling to keep things under control" (with a really large throat size) would encourage me to waste air.

Over the years, I have to suspect that (per typical) my lung capacity has decreased...YET - with embouchure control fine-tuning - I find that I'm able to play more music with less breathing.

fwiw, my playing position is pretty "open" (lips far apart, probably compared to some players), so - if anything - that would (yes...??) allow more air to pass through. Yet - apparently - it does not. (I'm pretty sure that c. 50 sq. mm circle that I'm blowing through does a pretty good job of restricting the flow of air.)

Mouthpiece throat sizes are the business of mouthpiece makers and consumers.
That having been said, when I see some of the epic throat sizes featured on some tuba mouthpieces, it prompts my eyes to stare at the ceiling.
I tend to wonder (??) if - when (some) people praise my mouthpieces - it's not anything "special" about them OTHER than the fact than none of my offered throat sizes are "stupid-large".

[Mary Ann]

Being no expert in the slightest.....I use what I use (PT 64)because of its smaller throat and cupped shape. Deeper cup, bigger throat, any tuba simply sucks the air out of my lungs. With this one, I can play, and the tone is my problem, not the mouthpiece's problem. I get a sound I like better on a deeper cup and bigger throat (like a 7B or a Jim Self,) but I don't have enough air to play. So...don't go back to that screechy trumpet thing. Stay on tuba!

[Doc]

Can choice of mouthpiece help? To some degree, yes. Efficiency (good buzz) is important, regardless of mouthpiece, and you can work on developing a clearer, more efficient buzz on the mouthpiece by itself if you are so inclined. Remember that as we age, and particularly if we are compromised by injury, lung capacity decreases, and we can't make it through the phrases like we could in the past.

A couple of quotes regarding age and breathing that I think of to to help me keep proper perspective and stay encouraged:

"Air is free. Take all you want." - Arnold Jacobs

"I'm over 50. I can't make the phrases like I used to. I have a 50 year old prostate, man... I have to pee." - a revered Tuba Forum member and professional player (if not exactly word for word, it's as close of a paraphrase as can be done).