Taylor Music Econo Refurbs

[DonO.]

Hello again! Trying to expand my choices for a “new” horn. In my searches I stumbled across the Taylor Music web site. I did do a forum search and only could find one person who had bought a Sousaphone from them. He seemed happy. Anyone care to share an opinion about their “econo overhaul” instruments? They have an interesting assortment right now. They’re all three-valve, I would imagine old beat up school horns that they fixed up. Here’s what they say they have right now in econo refurb. All are less than 2000 dollars:

1. Conn 12J
2. Yamaha YBB 103
3. Holton (Yamaha 103 copy)
4. Olds O-99
5. Reynolds TB11 (appears to be same horn as Olds).

Given those 5 choices for the same money give or take, which would you choose? Why? And would you consider Taylor to be a reliable source of such instruments? Thank you for any advice!

[DonO.]

where are you located? We post killer craigslist deals all the time. Might be worth checking listings within driving distance to you

All of those tubas are good horns, but for example, I saw a listing the other day for a yamaha 103 for $450
that's the kind of deal you jump on if possible

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2796

In answer to your other question, Taylor has a good reputation

[DonO.]

I am located in NW PA, Erie area you could say. I would be willing to drive to Pittsburgh PA, Cleveland OH, or western NY state for the right horn. Maybe even a little further. That 450 dollar Holton 103 would need probably 1500-2000 dollars of work to bring it up to snuff. To me that would make the one that’s already been overhauled a better deal.

[LeMark]

I don't know of any repairman in the world that would charge that much to take a few dents out.

[Three Valves]

The Goldilocks dilemma…

The 12J is fine but the 18in bell is ungainly. I’m not a fan of the pancake. I don’t get the sound concept and it’s too big.

The 103 and copies have a 14” bell, smaller bore and are easy to over blow and get blatty. That bell is too small.

The Olds gets a lot of love here. I like them too. The bore and 16” bell is just right.

That’s how I settled for my Mack 422.

I’m the guy that got the Sousa from Taylor. I found them responsive to calls and emails.

They also did what they said.

[DonO.]

I wasn’t talking about just taking out a few dents. If that horn were mine I would want to do the complete overhaul, with new lacquer and all. That’s just me. I like pretty.

Am I correct that the Reynolds is just a re- branded Olds?

[DonO.]

Yeah the Reynolds is just a stencil of the Olds.

Also, I kinda dig those 12Js. I’ve liked the sound they make.

[Three Valves]

I don't know of any repairman in the world that would charge that much to take a few dents out.

Perhaps, but did you check out those dents and that lead pipe??

Taylor includes shipping, may include tax and is a reputable seller.

The Reynolds is $1650 and I feel is more versatile and resonant that than a Yammy 103 or Holton stencil.

[the elephant]

If limited to that group I would likely take the Olds, as if it is a good one it is the best player of them, with the Reynolds in a close second. It all depends on the valves (plating/compression).

You can hold out and watch our listings and wait for a nice Olds O-99/4 with four valves — buy once, cry once, as they say. I would wait for another MW 25 like you used to have. There have been a few on here (and 20s) recently. I do not recall their prices, though.

Best of luck, Don!

Wade Rackley

RE: Reynolds, yes, sort of. Olds bought Reynolds. The horns are very close, with the caps and buttons and braces being somewhat different, but many parts are common.

[DonO.]

An econo rerfurb will not be what you are describing. You might get a horn without any lacquer. Ask questions before you buy

Honestly, with $2000 and a little patience, you should be able to find a small tuba that has never been beat up so bad it needs an econo refurbish.

[LargeTuba]

I don't know what your budget is, but a MW Gravity Hojo tuba could check the boxes.


https://www.melton-meinl-weston.com/en/ ... as/2011fa/

[Three Valves]

I don't know what your budget is, but a MW Gravity Hojo tuba could check the boxes.


https://www.melton-meinl-weston.com/en/ ... as/2011fa/

BB had one of these several years ago it was $8,500 in used/VG+ condition. GOSH, that was nice!!

[DonO.]

That HoJo is sweet looking! Budget if flexible, really trying to keep it under 5000, but depends on the horn. Eliminating Chinese takes out a lot of contenders. Even though in my previous life I played rotors I really want pistons now for the easier maintenance.

Taylor web site says “Econo Overhaul. All major dents and scratches removed. Entire instrument buffed and completely re-lacquered. Ultrasonically cleaned and adjusted”.

[MN_TimTuba]

DonO,
As a band director I did a lot of business with Taylor Music. Always felt they were fair, honest, and did a good job on repairs, never had a complaint.
As a tuba player I've been very happy with the Olds 99 and Reynolds, as well as the Yamaha 103. I currently own an old beater 103 that I use with our dixie band, in church brass groups, and some church offertory solos. I do feel the 103 has much better low range punch and is a joy to handle, but the Olds/Reynolds can handle a bit more volume better. I don't think you can go wrong with any of the three. FWIW, if I were going to purchase one of those three tonight it'd be the Reynolds. Just because.
Happy hunting.
Tim
PS. Oh, and there's this to be considered - https://www.ebay.com/itm/363543378945?h ... ition=3000

[Jperry1466]

AIl depends on what uses you have in mind. If you want something really light for stand-up playing outdoors, then the Y103 is a good choice. For indoor work in a large ensemble, it might not be enough. I also like the Olds 99 - not too big, nice sound. Not a fan of the 12J after having them in some of my band programs. When I was a band director in schools on a tight budget (back in the 90s), I bought a number of econo overhauls from Taylor and was never dissatisfied. One year, we bought an econo overhaul Sousaphone, and an old Pan American with the dents taken out showed up. It surprisingly played so well that the kids fought over it.

[The Big Ben]

I am located in NW PA, Erie area you could say. I would be willing to drive to Pittsburgh PA, Cleveland OH, or western NY state for the right horn. Maybe even a little further. That 450 dollar Holton 103 would need probably 1500-2000 dollars of work to bring it up to snuff. To me that would make the one that’s already been overhauled a better deal.

Maybe. Maybe not. It all depends on the situation. Some people have stuff they just want to get rid of fast. Place a low price on it and it moves. Look at photographs before making judgements.

[bloke]

Pricing:

Yesterday, a guy came from out-of-town with a 96-year-old 4-valve front-action "Monster" (20-inch bell) Conn E-flat.
The valves' tolerances score (and I'm pretty critical) a B-/C+, never rebuilt, raw nickel silver, the pistons do NOT "rattle" in the casings, and plenty close-enough tolerances for the instrument to play "well". About the thickest oil that does NOT slow down the pistons is a bit thinner than "3-in-one". It is satin silver, and the gold-wash bell interior is mostly intact.

The bottom bow was badly smashed in, there were a few small dents (surprisingly few) in the bell, some doofus had done one of those idiotic "try to convert it to C" things, and (even with all of the C-crap removed) it still played way-way-WAY below 440 tuning. (I had to actually shorten the BUGLE; otherwise, they would have had NO tuning slide. )

I worked hard on it for seven hours, and charged $800.
I offered to let them spend the night and have breakfast, but they were so giddy (bow-off epic dents removed, A=440 tuning, pistons regulated, guard wire repaired, water keys as they should be, etc.) that they drove all the way home, so they could (even with little sleep) wake up at their own house and play it.

Hey...There's PLENTY more that could be done to that instrument, but I "as always, exceeded [their] expectations".

If I work hard on your thing for an hour (and successfully complete the requested tasks), I'll probably ask for $125.
Back in 1980, I probably would have asked for $25, but
- dollars actually had some value, back then (gov't debt was only c. $1 tril.) and
- I'm about ten times as fast (and twenty times as competent) as I was, then.

[DonO.]

This discussion is kind of moot now that I have ordered a basically new close to mint King 2341. Not even shipped yet but we shall see if it wets my whistle. But I still love these stories about instrument restoration. Bloke, I have only been a member here a short time, and already I have found you have some really great stories. I enjoy them very much! And I am in complete awe of guys like you who can repair horns that look like scrap metal and make something out of them worth having. I know this much: after months and countless hours looking at “used” tubas on various web sites, including flea-bay, there is no shortage of raw material out there for you to work on! I got REALLY tired of clicking on an ad for a used (more like abused) tuba, clicking on the picture, and seeing some dented up mess begging for a complete overhaul. I wanted something I could play NOW! Anyway, keep those stories coming, bloke. I don’t think I’ll ever get tired of them.

[bloke]

One thing has changed: piston/casing rebuilding
A company that did superb work - and at very affordable pricing - has ceased offering that service.
Typically (as the USA continues its decline) no one has been found to be trainable to take the place of the person who retired.
...so there are only two or three people - across the USA - who also do this, and the pricing has tripled.
Thus, many formerly-viable/feasible restorations are no longer economically viable/feasible, unless "another $1000 - $1500 for valves" is still within the value of the restored instrument.

This discussion is kind of moot now that I have ordered a basically new close to mint King 2341. Not even shipped yet but we shall see if it wets my whistle. But I still love these stories about instrument restoration. Bloke, I have only been a member here a short time, and already I have found you have some really great stories. I enjoy them very much! And I am in complete awe of guys like you who can repair horns that look like scrap metal and make something out of them worth having. I know this much: after months and countless hours looking at “used” tubas on various web sites, including flea-bay, there is no shortage of raw material out there for you to work on! I got REALLY tired of clicking on an ad for a used (more like abused) tuba, clicking on the picture, and seeing some dented up mess begging for a complete overhaul. I wanted something I could play NOW! Anyway, keep those stories coming, bloke. I don’t think I’ll ever get tired of them.

[Three Valves]

Anyway, keep those stories coming, bloke. I don’t think I’ll ever get tired of them.

Pace yourself, buddy, pace yourself!!