At a Crossroads with Playing....

[KingTuba1241X]

So I have a fantastic/once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to make a sweet deal on a vintage 188 Miraphone, and although I've been wanting a 187..they simply don't exist on the used market and were always Easter eggs when they did or just out of my price range. Problem is, I'm mostly capable of playing professional material on the BBb and have only played BBb for 30 years meaning I am hard wired. I think of everything in BBb and it makes the most sense in a "Flat-Key playing community wind band"...but damn if I don't think the 188 is the best looking and playing of the Miraphone line. Always wanted one since I was a kid.

My biggest issue is moving passages beyond quarter notes or runs where my brain and fingers auto default back to BBb fingerings no matter how much I try to flip the switch. Is it not worth making this deal and risking the embarassment in a community group rehearsal getting stuck and omitting lots of parts out while I gas out ...or should I go for it and worst case scenario flip or trade it for the BBb equivalent? The good part is I am ahead of the game if not for the brain and fingers, I already know how to steer a tuba around and what pitches sound like in every way so it's just the wiring.

I know this topic on the old site was hashed ad nauseum but what is the advice? Write fingerings in until..MAYBE this old dog can learn a new trick, or is it too late after 30 years of B flat playing? My groups play weekly now, with unpaid concerts starting to pop up on the calender for the rest of the year, so maybe this would be the best place and time or maybe the worst time... So conflicted...I know how much you guys like your 188's....

[bone-a-phone]

I'm an old bird too, and I've learned to play bass, (non transposed) treble, transposed treble, tenor and alto clefs, along with octave transpositions on sight. The ones that get mixed up are the transposed and non-transposed treble. Same sort of difference with Bb and C. I can go along swimmingly in either until there's a big interval or something. But it's only a problem if I'm switching back and forth. If you're always doing the same transposition - er - reading in the same set of fingerings - you'll be fine. The problem will come if you switch back and forth a lot...

[bort2.0]

I owe you an email, but I say DO IT!

[Three Valves]

I'm improving on what I have but I ain't learning nothing new.

Nope, ain't gonna do it!!

[KingTuba1241X]

I'm not "old" per se, but I suppose when you consider 30 years of tuba playing since I was 11, that's a pretty long career. I've done more gigs in that time than I care to remember. Point being, nothing is impossible...but, then again Philosphers never tried 2 different keys of tubas after that long either

[donn]

Works for some, not for others. You have to decide. For me, I think it would be OK after maybe less than a month of regular serious practice, but not if I tried to go back and forth. You'd have to put that BBb in a storage locker where you can't be tempted, and when you're sure which side you're on, sell the others. Personally I'm so glad I resisted the allure of certain C tubas.

[KingTuba1241X]

Works for some, not for others. You have to decide. For me, I think it would be OK after maybe less than a month of regular serious practice, but not if I tried to go back and forth. You'd have to put that BBb in a storage locker where you can't be tempted, and when you're sure which side you're on, sell the others. Personally I'm so glad I resisted the allure of certain C tubas.

I can do even better, the BBb is about to be sold and gone anyway. That's not the temptation here, it's literally trying to rip all the old wiring out and replacing it. The mental game is the largest obstacle here...not the "oh look, a pretty BBb sitting here" issue.

[bort2.0]

So here's the thing, you've got to do what you've got to do to keep yourself active and interested. For me, playing tuba is a hobby. And even when there are things I really like, I don't have to own it forever. I've proved that time and again!

In part, it's because I find different things I want to try. Also, because there are styles of tubas that I haven't tried before, and want to. And other times, there's just stuff that I've always wanted to have, and sometimes, I can have it.

I sure can't own 12 tubas at the same time. But I can own 12 tubas, 2 years at a time. I'm sure I'll stop at some point. But not just yet. I think the buy/sell/trade side of things is fun, too.

For the 188 -- if it's a great deal and opportunity for you, it can surely be un-done later and sell/buy/trade to move on. CC vs. BBb is just a mind game, and when you get past that, you're in good shape. It's like "when I do THIS, it sounds like THIS." In my experience, it just takes time on the horn, and time reading (and not reading) music to get used to the physical connections between what you're doing, and the pitch you're hearing. Once I get myself past that, I'm set.

I'd say give it a shot. It's a good deal. It's easy to sell a 188 at the right price to break even or better. Have you SEEN the price of a brand new 188 these days?

You only go around once. Do what you can while you can.

Last weekend, I learned that one of my neighbors passed away. He was 75, in great health, and I realized I hadn't seen him around for a little while. Turns out that one day he started feeling ill and went to the doctor. Found out he had a rare and aggressive form of cancer that was stage 4. He died about 3 weeks later. Feeling perfect to gone in 3 weeks. I'm glad the suffering didn't last long. But goodness, it hurts to think of the things he and his family had planned for the future. 3 weeks is nothing.

[matt g]

@KingTuba1241X you've done the analysis. I agree, it’s way easier to find a 188 than a 187. I also think it’s because the 188 is a bit better overall in terms of intonation and response.

I think you can flip the con of learning fingerings into a pro. You’ll be able to come at music with a fresh mind again and have motivation to practice. There’s going to be a period of struggle, but it’s not as long as you may think.

[KingTuba1241X]

I sure can't own 12 tubas at the same time. But I can own 12 tubas, 2 years at a time. I'm sure I'll stop at some point. But not just yet. I think the buy/sell/trade side of things is fun, too.

The buy/sell side of things is great but if you just want to "sleep around" with 12 tubas in 2 years, I would keep a log of how much money you have into these horns including any needed repairs or you'll slowly and silently start digging a deficite and without even knowing you will be thousands into the hole and not realize it. I'm pushing it on this deal myself, but considering how much these CAN be worth in the right situation that has me not AS concerned.

Have you SEEN the price of a brand new 188 these days?

Yes $10k or better, but have you seen the dinosaur tuba market? Not sure it's ever coming back to pre-CVD levels of value/cost/worth. There's a MAJOR shift happening in resale/retail markets. I keep hearing about inflation, but used specialty items haven't been moving and gaining value.

[bort2.0]

Deficit?

On the whole, I would say that it probably more or less broken even when I started buying instruments 20 years ago to now. Maybe had a little bit maybe behind a little bit, not real sure. It's kind of never really been the point. Cuz after all say that was $2,000 down... Spread over 20 years, does that work out to an amount that uncomfortable saying that I spend this much per year on my hobby? Whatever it's turned out to be, and again I've not really tracked it very closely, The finances worked out in the way that's just fine for me.

As for sleeping around... It's a dang tuba, man. Was I expected to marry the first person that I dated?

[KingTuba1241X]

Deficit?

On the whole, I would say that it probably more or less broken even when I started buying instruments 20 years ago to now. Maybe had a little bit maybe behind a little bit, not real sure. It's kind of never really been the point. Cuz after all say that was $2,000 down... Spread over 20 years, does that work out to an amount that uncomfortable saying that I spend this much per year on my hobby? Whatever it's turned out to be, and again I've not really tracked it very closely, The finances worked out in the way that's just fine for me.

As for sleeping around... It's a dang tuba, man. Was I expected to marry the first person that I dated?

Did I spell Deficate wrong?

Well if it's ONLY a hobby and you can chalk the money spent on horns and such as 'Entertainment' costs that's great. Maybe I need to think of it like that.

I thought you were Omish since you didn't have a FB account , yes marry the first one that catches your eye...it will save you all the hassle of dating and learning a new one later.

[Sousaswag]

The whole BBb to CC thing really isn't that hard. It took me maybe 3 weeks to feel totally comfortable. You already know all the fingerings, but now they're just shifted a step... As bort said, do what keeps you interested. You can sell the 188 for what you paid for it, or even more depending on who buys it. Having a challenge will encourage you to play more, and I'll bet you will enjoy it that much more because it's different! Different horn, key, valve type, etc. Have fun with it.

[bloke]

We all have our own opinions.

I don't personally view the 87 as a winner, but as an alsoran.

ie. "What if we made a B-flat version of an 88...oh...whoops"

Since YOU like them, though (which is what matters, here), it's just a damn shame that I know where a pretty 187 is just sitting (in a "dead" band room) in a nice MTS case...CANNOT BE SOLD...

If the 88 is stupid cheap (flip-worthy), shouldn't you buy it, sell it for market, and then go 87-huntin' ...??

[KingTuba1241X]

The whole BBb to CC thing really isn't that hard. It took me maybe 3 weeks to feel totally comfortable. You already know all the fingerings, but now they're just shifted a step... As bort said, do what keeps you interested. You can sell the 188 for what you paid for it, or even more depending on who buys it. Having a challenge will encourage you to play more, and I'll bet you will enjoy it that much more because it's different! Different horn, key, valve type, etc. Have fun with it.

I can already finger each note if you called them out to me in CC, it's just stringing them together in moving lines and multiples where I hear wires arcing in my head. As far as keeping interested, there's no problem there..I'm just comfortable with BBb playing. I heard life begins outside of your comfort zone, I don't know..it could end out there too

[KingTuba1241X]

Since YOU like them, though (which is what matters, here), it's just a damn shame that I know where a pretty 187 is just sitting (in a "dead" band room) in a nice MTS case...CANNOT BE SOLD...

If the 88 is stupid cheap (flip-worthy), shouldn't you buy it, sell it for market, and then go 87-huntin' ...??

Cannot be sold? How about replaced with 2 horns equal to it in exchange? Do you know the director that well? This is so sad. Yeah been huntin' them for awhile, and 2 popped up within 1 year that were out of my price range at the time and sellers were not interested in trades + cash which is what I have working for the 188. (Just have to learn how to actually play it efficiently and not sound like a beginning band student).

[iHeartLowBrass]

I have this weird feeling that the 495 Hagen might be the answer but I've never seen them available in the U.S.

[KingTuba1241X]

I have this weird feeling that the 495 Hagen might be the answer but I've never seen them available in the U.S.

Don't really like the look of those. Not saying they don't play or sound good, but I think 1/2 of it for me is visual aesthetics.

[bort2.0]

I have this weird feeling that the 495 Hagen might be the answer but I've never seen them available in the U.S.

Don't really like the look of those. Not saying they don't play or sound good, but I think 1/2 of it for me is visual aesthetics.

I hear that loud and clear. The 188 is one of the all time beauties. I just love it, and can't look away. Doesn't always show so well in a photo, but to hold one is something else.

Low center of gravity and great balance.
Short upper bow
EASY to reach the first slide (like you need it)
All around nicely proportioned

One of my all time favorites!

[Dan Tuba]

I would stay with BBb. Very few advantages, if any, depending on what you are planning to do with this tuba . There are some excellent BBb tubas on the market right now. I'm sure that you can find one that really allows you to focus on and enjoy the music without having to stress over mechanics/fingerings, etc.

Good luck wth finding a new to you tuba. As others have already said, you only live once. If there's something new that you want to try, and you have the time/resources to responsibily do it, and you won't end up in jail Just do it