Best materials for tubist wanting to double on Euph

[Doc]

Besides long tones, flexibility exercises, basic stuff, what other materials would you recommend to a tuba player who wanted to bring his euph skills up to a consistent level?

[LeMark]

I lot of it is just conditioning. For me, I can play tuba for hours and never get tired. But I pick up A euphonium, and I can't make it through a community band concert.
I have to play a LOT to get myself in shape

How's your tone when you are fresh?

[Levaix]

Two main suggestions:

1. Don't. There are already too many of us to make a living.
2. Sit down with a good euph player and run through some duets. It may help by example, and if not at least you'll make a euphonium player feel wanted.

:'(

[Pauvog1]

Etudes, Rochut/Bordogni and the others. Maybe the Tyrell trombone book too.

[djwpe]

Bill-

Rather than what, I would say the how is more important. As a primarily euphonium player who frequently doubles on trombone and occasionally doubles on tuba, I find it's really important to approach each instrument as a distinct separate instrument. This means having a clear sound concept, and listening to yourself critically to make sure you're approaching each instrument in the way to achieve your concept.

I find if I play a lot of tuba, my euphonium sound gets so dark so as to be dull. This is because the blow is different enough to make a tuba approach to euphonium the wrong one.

I'm not going to be one of THOSE engineers ( :mrgreen: ) and try to figure out the mechanics of this, but just warn you that you should do your best to find out what each instrument needs, and give it that.

Don

[Doc]

Bill-

Rather than what, I would say the how is more important. As a primarily euphonium player who frequently doubles on trombone and occasionally doubles on tuba, I find it's really important to approach each instrument as a distinct separate instrument. This means having a clear sound concept, and listening to yourself critically to make sure you're approaching each instrument in the way to achieve your concept.

I find if I play a lot of tuba, my euphonium sound gets so dark so as to be dull. This is because the blow is different enough to make a tuba approach to euphonium the wrong one.

I'm not going to be one of THOSE engineers ( :mrgreen: ) and try to figure out the mechanics of this, but just warn you that you should do your best to find out what each instrument needs, and give it that.

Don

I'm with you on that. My approach to euphonium is like my approach to F tuba - it's a different beast altogether (although euphonium is kind of a teddy bear compared to those big grizzlies I have lying around). Sound concept/motivation is important. Giving it what it needs is essential. And sometimes, you cannot engineer that. You have to figure it out. But II'm not so proud that I won't take all the help I can get.

Yeah, If I pick up the euphonium after playing tuba without firmly thinking about the sound I want to make, it's easy to start off sounding like a sick walrus or a flatulent cow. I used to play a lot of trombone, so the transition was easy. But in recent times, I haven't played trombone at all. Time to get into shape. I can do fundamental brass stuff all day, but tips, materials, reminders of stuff I should already know/have forgotten are welcome. I just have to do the work.

[Doc]

I lot of it is just conditioning. For me, I can play tuba for hours and never get tired. But I pick up A euphonium, and I can't make it through a community band concert.
I have to play a LOT to get myself in shape

How's your tone when you are fresh?

I'm no Brian Bowman (ya think?), but it's reasonable. Clear, but not refined and beautiful enough to fool a really good euphonium player into thinking I play euphonium. Easy to be honky when fatigued, but without stamina, that's expected.

[Doc]

Two main suggestions:

1. Don't. There are already too many of us to make a living.

You are quite safe. I wouldn't be so foolish to think I could make money playing euphonium (not many do anyway).

2. Sit down with a good euph player and run through some duets. It may help by example, and if not at least you'll make a euphonium player feel wanted.

I'm not in a place that's rich and meaty with low brass players, but that's a great idea to work on.

Etudes, Rochut/Bordogni and the others. Maybe the Tyrell trombone book too.

I've always used the Rochut (tbone). I have Tyrell for BBb tuba. Is the trombone book a lot different or more beneficial? Reading octaves up or down is not an issue.

[Fivevalves]

This is great - I mainly dabble in euph in order to have a Bydlo option or Planets/ Henry Wood Sea Songs. Anything that helps firm that up would be useful....

[bloke]

Bona/Fitch "Rhythmical Articulation" (whether a bunch of the easy ones, or a bunch of the more complex ones) kick my @$$, as far as my face is concerned.

A week of them begins to kick my @$$ less.

Three weeks of them begin to sound "presentable".

A couple of months of them...and I might (??) be able to fake someone out that I'm a "euphonium player". :shock:

I always prefer (if possible) to work on playing issues using musical phrases - rather than mechanical exercises...IF POSSIBLE.

Obviously ( :arrow: as an example of the contrary), when I decided (years ago, after not being very good at them for quite a few years) to teach myself how to execute nice controlled lip trills, I (simply) had to work on "lip trills"...as they do not occur very often in musical phrases.

[russiantuba]

I’ve been doing a cross training routine between CC and F, which I suspect would work well from this. I’ve had students try this with success.

I do all my fundamental stuff on CC. Towards the end, I do half of the Baer Cross-Training exercises, CC 8vb and F at octave. Sometimes I do all 12 (they are basically edited Bell Scales). I modify that if I have a lot of F tuba stuff and do the fundamental stuff on F.

I use Blokepieces with the same rim so rim adjustment isn’t an issue. You might want to try two separate sessions where you keep both instruments separate. Everyone is different on this, I know some who do very well going back and forth. My undergraduate professor is an amazing tripler, but he even told me that if doing a recital he would block it off between euph/trombone on one part and tuba on the other. I know I would personally do this if I did euphonium and put the euphonium at the end. I have an easier time going from tuba to euphonium (some adjustment since I don’t play it much) than I do from euphonium to tuba. I always feel my core and tone is fuzzy on tuba after euphonium.

[BopEuph]

1. Don't. There are already too many of us to make a living.

When I graduated college as a euph/jazz bass major, I thought I'd be making mostly a living traveling the country like Demondrae or Gail getting hired to play orchestral pieces that needed euphonium. Never happened. About five years later, my Willson horn was stolen from my car when I was packing for a visit to my family for the weekend. I got an insurance check, but decided I need to reinvest the money on NOT euphonium. I don't regret the choice, but miss my primary voice. It was then that I took up tuba, and it's been the best decision I've made.

That being said, I think lip slurs/trills are equally as important as long tones. Generally, my 90-minute daily routine hits buzzing, long tones, lip slurs/trills, articulation, velocity, and scales. In that order, but I forego the last two quite often and just get to the literature early.

[ParLawGod]

Agree with the Rochut/Bordogni book. Great for working on tone, slurring, and intonation on the horn. The first book also is a comfortable range for a doubler, and not crazy in terms of technique.

[Nworbekim]

Agree with the Rochut/Bordogni book. Great for working on tone, slurring, and intonation on the horn. The first book also is a comfortable range for a doubler, and not crazy in terms of technique.

i agree... and would add the arban book to develop technique so that i could play scales mindlessly... just let the body do the thinking and my mind goes blank... i don't know how that works. is it muscle memory? i don't think about the notes, i just play them...

[BopEuph]

just let the body do the thinking and my mind goes blank... i don't know how that works. is it muscle memory? i don't think about the notes, i just play them...

This is how I would daily routines. I watch a lot of sitcoms (something you don't have to be 100% involved in to follow) while working out daily routines. Works great.

[Levaix]

Two main suggestions:

1. Don't. There are already too many of us to make a living.

You are quite safe. I wouldn't be so foolish to think I could make money playing euphonium (not many do anyway).

I promise this answer was tongue in cheek. :P (Or is it tongue out of mouth?)

I wish I had something a little better, but having started on euphonium the trick to tuba ("MORE AIR") was relatively easy to figure out on a conceptual level.

Maybe a better question, what specifically do you (or whoever you are asking for) struggle with on euphonium?

[tubanews]

just let the body do the thinking and my mind goes blank... i don't know how that works. is it muscle memory? i don't think about the notes, i just play them...

This is how I would daily routines. I watch a lot of sitcoms (something you don't have to be 100% involved in to follow) while working out daily routines. Works great.

Judge Judy, and baseball games...

[BopEuph]

Judge Judy, and baseball games...

Been on a Big Bang Theory kick for the last few weeks. Thinking about jumping around Simpsons episodes next...because, let's face it, as much of a fan as I am, I don't think I can make it through over 30 seasons.

[bloke]

I probably should have just agreed with Rochut/Bordogni...but (probably responding with too many personal biases), I've just grown weary of seeing those, and "playing them on most any instrument" tends to cause my brain to lull, auto-pilot, and pay less attention. I certain can/do overcome that, but slightly-less-familiar-to-me material causes my brain to automatically pay more attention.

[bone-a-phone]

As a trombone player who dabbles in euph and tuba, the tough things for me are valves, tuning with valves, key signatures with more than 3 sharps or more than 4 flats (23 combos), and not playing euph like a trombone player. Oh, plus figuring out which spit valve to use. Interestingly, I have trouble modulating volume on euph - can't get very soft, and the softer it is, the harder it is to not play like a trombone player. On euph I can generally get the high range or the low range, but not both. I'm more secure on a larger mouthpiece (Bach 1.25G size).

I work a lot of trombone music that's familiar, and then some sight reading stuff so I know I'm really playing the valves. I play some real book stuff, a lot of Rochut, Vining, bass trombone books.

For tuba I typically work on simpler things that focus more on fundamentals like hearing intervals and articulation. Trombone helps you a lot less than you might think with either euph or tuba. The bell orientation was the first big hurdle. And even though both the euph and tuba are heavier than the trombone, they are both less of an ergonomic disaster. I find myself playing euphonium when I want to relax. When I play trombone, I sweat profusely from all the work, but I can play euph staying dry in my recliner.