Mouthpiece selection method

[royjohn]

I am a 74 y/o newbie on tuba...I have about 9 mouthpieces, from a small Yamaha 65 thru
a Bobo Symphonic to some 33mm deep bowls. I find I can play on all of these and, aside
from some difference in tone on the deeper pieces, I don't see a lot of difference in how
I perform on these. I haven't used a tuner exhaustively yet, so that's one thing I could look
at.

What methods do you use to decide which is the best mouthpiece for you. Do you look at
articulation and how the tone begins, the tonal palette the mouthpiece gives you or some
other factors?
-royjohn

[Stryk]

I have some wonky teeth - always have. My first criteria is - how does the rim feel. Does it fit my mouth or does it hurt. Aside from that, it is mostly pick one and stick with it. I have found that I prefer stainless steel mouthpieces best - they don't ding or wear easily and there is no plating to rub off. Others contend brass ones are better for whatever reason. The minutia is all personal preference. Best of luck!

[Three Valves]

1. Fits my face

2. Slots well

3. Does it enhance or hinder my God given World Class Sound

[bloke]

too complicated for a post.

I could explain what goes into the decisions to mate various mouthpieces with various instruments I own, but it would just be a bunch of probably not-particularly-helpful stuff, and way too long.

(…sort of like when someone described all of the amazing features of their tuba bag)

[Pauvog1]

A lot like Stryk:

- Is the rim it comfortable
-Does it feel well balanced with resistance
-Does it enable me to place pitches where I need them across the needed ranges for that tool.
-Does it enable me to make the tone I'm after on that instrument (this is lowest on my list, as I view tone production as more an internal/player thing than a mouthpiece thing, others may feel different).

I generally find changing mouthpieces all the time makes everything harder (like trying to hit a moving target). Maybe find the one of your collection you like the best and see how it behaves. After a few months, see what aspect of playing you want to address (what's hard for you) and see if a specific mp change will help.

I generally recommend folks try some sort of Helleberg and some sort of bowl or U-shaped mouthpiece first and see if they have a lean one way or the other. A Helleberg 120s and a Bach 18 are great spots to "start" as most folks prefer one or the other. Then with time they can venture on (or not).

Community bands, solos, method books, recording yourself, and getting trusted feedback are great ways to figure out "what works".

[tofu]

.

[donn]

I sometimes point the bell straight at a nearby wall or ceiling, a couple feet away, to get a better idea what's going out to the listener.

There's a lot of back and forth. Mouthpiece of the month, but it narrows down over time.

[bloke]

I think back to when I was 12 years old and a newbie.
I was glad to have >> a << mouthpiece, even though it was a nylon cup screwed to a brass shank - with a bad leak between the two - covered with tape. I later observed - via my 12-year-old amazing scientific/analytical intellect - that a beat-to-crap “Made in Austria“ (regular) mouthpiece played better without the leak between its cup and shank. I was so pleased with the improvement in the sound - on the old brown dusty clanky school sousaphone - without the leak, that I took that mouthpiece home, took it out to my Dad’s shop, straightened out the shank (with my Dad’s plumb-bob) and polished it up - also removing years of “whatever“ deposits from the inside - from previous students’ use of it.

I don’t believe I could’ve thoughtfully chosen a mouthpiece for the first several years.

As a duffer golfer, I could sort of guess which of the clubs in the set was approximately the right one to pull out to attempt to hit the ball, but could not have possibly chosen between several sets of clubs (even after someone might show me how to choose approximate club lengths for me - based on my own height and stance), and would’ve noticed no difference between a set of 1960s SEARS JC Higgins clubs or some $10,000 set of clubs.

Today – if I find some new/different mouthpiece candidate in one hand - and one of my instruments in my other hand (as long as the candidate mouthpiece doesn’t absolutely look like some stupid thing that couldn’t possibly work), I might insert that mouthpiece into the instrument, play it for several minutes (or less than one minute, depending on it’s performance characteristics), and compare it to what I’ve already been using. At this point, I don’t need to list the differences on a piece of paper, because I’ve been doing comparisons for so long. There has been over a half century of experience, since I was 12 years old.

Obviously, this post offers no assistance nor guidance in choosing a mouthpiece, but perhaps (??) it offer some perspective.

[bort2.0]

I was 15 when I bought my first mouthpiece, a Bach 18 Megatone.

I had no clue what to get, and my only guidance was flipping through the pages of the Giardinelli catalog. I saw this one, it was expensive, and the description was "sonorous." I didn't know what that meant, but I decided I wanted to sound that way.

I used that mouthpiece exclusively for the next 10 years. I'm not sure I even TRIED another mouthpiece during those years, including college. Still use it from time to time... Actually, an excellent match for me with the Besson 983 and with the Conn 20J.

Turns out that I actually DO sound sonorous!

[bort2.0]

Oh, and about 5 years ago, I decided to buy a Thein mouthpiece, on a whim, to see what it was like. It's about all I've used since then, a really comfortable and nice mouthpiece choice for me!!

[Three Valves]

Turns out that I actually DO sound sonorous!

World Class Sonorous!!

[iiipopes]

3. Does it enhance or hinder my God given World Class Sound

Thanks for the satire. Seriously, yes, a well-fitting mouthpiece can help a player focus and make the most of what he/she has; where an ill-fitting mouthpiece can be quite a distraction and impediment to playing. Happy Holidays!

[bloke]

WITH APOLOGIES TO THE ORIGINATOR OF THIS THREAD, WHO IS GENIUNELY SEEKING USEFUL INFORMATION…

If I ever put up a website - hawking my mouthpieces, I’m gonna include some flying monkeys an’ sheit.

=================
Seriously…
With little experience - yet and array of mouthpieces that the septuagenarian boosts, some things could be learned from playing through all nine of them and taking a few notes.
Even if some of those perceptions might be flawed, doing it quite a few times could well result in some learning.

[iiipopes]

Seriously, all the above. When I try out a mouthpiece, I take note, among other things, of:

1) how the cup diameter feels;
2) how the rim contour feels;
3) the intonation characteristics, compared to the recognized intonation quirks of the tuba I'm auditioning;
4) ease of producing pitches;
5) how much air it takes.
6) and probably other criteria, but this will do for now.

Then I take written notes to compare my impressions (pun intended) of other mouthpieces, and narrow the universe to a few manageable choices, then to a main mouthpiece for any particular tuba/souzy.

From this comparison/contrast approach to a mouthpiece safari over the decades, and keeping notes, I have come to prefer:
1) a 1.28 inch cup diameter;
2) a moderately narrow slightly rounded rim, like Bloke's modified Helleberg;
3) depending on the tuba/souzy, I have been known to try anywhere from one to a couple dozen mouthpieces before I like the intonation characteristics;
4) if I have to over-adjust my embouchure as I transition ranges, the mouthpiece is set aside for another;
5) for example, I love the tone of a Wick 1, but the 8.43 mm throat, large backbore, and the deep funnel require almost a third lung's worth of additional air from me. The Conn Helleberg 120S I am using now, keeping manufacturing tolerences in mind, has a "wobbly P drill" diameter throat and moderately deep cup, which is just right for me and is the best match of the mouthpieces I tried for my Jupiter tuba. Other mouthpieces were better on the other tubas I have played in the last few years: Miraphone, Conn souzy, etc.
6) price, aesthetics, etc., are all so personal that comments don't mean much. However, the depth of cup can affect the interaction of the mouthpiece with the horn and can range from matters a lot to not at all. For example, my experience has been you can use just about any mouthpiece on a King 1240/1/2340/1 tuba, but surprisingly, the intonation goes different directions with different mouthpieces on my Jupiter JTU1110.

You will notice I haven't said much about tone. Tone is in the embouchure, jaw & throat, and breath support in my view. All the particular tuba/mouthpiece combination does is bring that out.

You must give each mouthpiece at least one good long practice or rehearsal session to fully assess what the mouthpiece does or doesn't do for you on the particular tuba, because differences in warm-up, environment (small practice room - large hall concert, etc.), the repertoire, the way you feel that particular day, etc. all have a bearing and make a difference; the purpose of extended audition is to put all those differences in context, hopefully with a friend who can stand 10-20 feet away and tell you how you really sound. Once I was playing a sousy in a different community band years ago. I hadn't played in a few years, so I brought two mouthpieces and asked the conductor which one he liked the tone and intonation better. There were other school band conductors in the room. All of them said that they could not tell a difference, which is consistent with your initial comment that what you have all feel and sound similar. So when you get to that point it is personal preference.

That is how I have approached mouthpieces since coming back to tuba/souzy full time in 2007. Your mileage may vary. Welcome back to low brass!

[Mary Ann]

As as newbie, you just ain't good enough yet for it to matter except with extremes. Like someone else said, pick one and stick with it. As your embouchure matures, which will take a while, then you will start to be able to tell what works better. So also like someone said, if it doesn't hurt and seems to fit your face, it's all good. I was a newbie in my 50s; messed around until I had that box full like everybody else, then figured out what worked and sounded good and used it on everything.

[Rick Denney]

What MA said above. And I recommend you start with a Helleberg 120S (is it labeled “Conn” these days?) and play that for at least a year. The flat, narrow rim will also encourage you to avoid too much pressure—a good thing.

The Helleberg is a standard archetype for a reason.

Rick “depart from the Helleberg only when you no longer need us to answer your question” Denney

[iiipopes]

What MA said above. And I recommend you start with a Helleberg 120S (is it labeled “Conn” these days?) and play that for at least a year. The flat, narrow rim will also encourage you to avoid too much pressure—a good thing.

The Helleberg is a standard archetype for a reason.

Rick “depart from the Helleberg only when you no longer need us to answer your question” Denney

After all these years, and after long mouthpiece safaris, and after trying everything from $30 copies and used mouthpieces to $XXX mouthpieces, even I have come back to a Conn 120S Helleberg as my primary mouthpiece. The newer ones do have a slightly rounded rim which is more comfortable than the flat rim with a inner edge "bite" that some of the older ones had, and is much more comfortable as a result. I can vouch for the mouthpiece makes you study your fundamentals of embouchure and not use too much pressure as you work on fundamentals: long tones, lip slurs scales, etc.

There are others through the years that have been considered "beginner" or "comeback" mouthpieces. I used an old King 25 when I was in high school that was roughly equivalent to a Bach 22 (before both were assimilated by the Cyborg.) So I agree with Mary Ann about trying one of what you have already to get going again, but I also agree with Rick: if none of your current mouthpieces seem to work for you, then a Conn 120S Helleberg is a good place to start to get a reference on what a middle-of-the-road mouthpiece in size, cup geometry, throat and backbore, etc., can do for you. Then after a year or so of getting back into playing you can reevaluate your position.

[bloke]

I suspect that the very best advice is to not listen to anyone’s advice, and to determine one’s own criteria…at first via stumbling/trial-and-error, and later via experience.

Some of the advice I’ve seen here (risking posting an “above the fray“ post myself, which is the type of posts that I tend to mock) reminds me of some of the views (“That - which is greater than ourselves - is ONLY this”…etc.) that some preachers offer from their pulpits - as well as those same preachers claiming that ~their~ interpretations of other men’s words (collected, and published in a book) are THE correct interpretations.

I’ve just heard too many players play beautifully with mouthpieces that I would rate as totally useless. (That having been said, would they play even more beautifully and more effortlessly with some that I might consider to be useful…??
‘ too bad that this is NOT a science, though some deeply involved in technical/scientific fields tend to wish it into a science.)

[Doc]

I am a 74 y/o newbie on tuba...I have about 9 mouthpieces, from a small Yamaha 65 thru
a Bobo Symphonic to some 33mm deep bowls. I find I can play on all of these and, aside
from some difference in tone on the deeper pieces, I don't see a lot of difference in how
I perform on these. I haven't used a tuner exhaustively yet, so that's one thing I could look
at.

What methods do you use to decide which is the best mouthpiece for you. Do you look at
articulation and how the tone begins, the tonal palette the mouthpiece gives you or some
other factors?
-royjohn

Everyone has their own criteria and the order of importance for that criteria. I would suggest you play your various mouthpieces and choose the one that appeals to you the most in terms of your own criteria. If they all seem to play similarly, but the tone varies from one to the next, possibly consider the tone you like best? There is no real standard answer, and there is no right or wrong answer. It's up to you. You might consider recording yourself so you can hear the different sounds from the other side of the bell. And as you become a better player, those differences might be easier to detect. And your needs and priorities may change over time as your playing improves. Sometimes, a mouthpiece just stands out as "the one" for you and that particular instrument. Enjoy the search and the testing, and let your ear be your guide.

[GC]

The Helleberg is a standard archetype for a reason.

And the other standard archetype is probably the Bach 18 (and maybe the much-abused 24AW).