Rite of Spring

[matt g]

@tobysima` that CSO recording might be with Gene or it could’ve been done when he took that year or so off to be in LA. It might be Rex Martin? Anyhow, it’s darn good.

[DandyZ629]

@tobysima` that CSO recording might be with Gene or it could’ve been done when he took that year or so off to be in LA. It might be Rex Martin? Anyhow, it’s darn good.

I think that was recorded in June of '89. Most likely it is Gene. Rex Martin would be the other logical choice, for sure.

[tobysima`]

@tobysima` that CSO recording might be with Gene or it could’ve been done when he took that year or so off to be in LA. It might be Rex Martin? Anyhow, it’s darn good.

Anyhow, massive tuba sound I'd bet. Just like that CSO Shostakovich 7. Whoever drove the low brass section on that one had POWER!!!

[bloke]

just a reminder:

It was originally scored for a pair of kaiser baritones in C (loaded with a bunch of piston valves).

[barry grrr-ero]

It's my belief that Stravinsky wanted clarity and rhythmic accuracy, irrespective of what instrument you pick up to play. The "Rite" has plenty of loud stuff and plenty of low stuff for the second tuba, so choose accordingly.

The last time I did it, the first tuba used a Yamaha 822 F. On the second part, I used a prototype Miraphone 188 CC AND a Besson 3+1 compensating Eb tuba (19" bell and larger John Fletcher pipe). The conductor liked the percussion really strong, so we did not 'over-play' or stick out. However, the conductor pointed us out at the dress rehearsal and the orchestra gave us a big round of applause. We really worked on it.

Remember, acoustics play into the equation as well. I saw a very major, highly paid symphony orchestra (won't name names) play "Le Sacre", in which the two tubas used F tubas throughout. The upper stuff was fine, but I could not hear their low register stuff at all. Stravinsky's desire for clarity would include low register, as well as high.

[matt g]

@tobysima` that CSO recording might be with Gene or it could’ve been done when he took that year or so off to be in LA. It might be Rex Martin? Anyhow, it’s darn good.

Anyhow, massive tuba sound I'd bet. Just like that CSO Shostakovich 7. Whoever drove the low brass section on that one had POWER!!!

If you’re talking about the recording with Bernstein that was live, that’s Jacobs and Rex Martin. I’m pretty sure it was Jake’s last concert. The whole recording is amazing.

[tobysima`]

@tobysima` that CSO recording might be with Gene or it could’ve been done when he took that year or so off to be in LA. It might be Rex Martin? Anyhow, it’s darn good.

Anyhow, massive tuba sound I'd bet. Just like that CSO Shostakovich 7. Whoever drove the low brass section on that one had POWER!!!

If you’re talking about the recording with Bernstein that was live, that’s Jacobs and Rex Martin. I’m pretty sure it was Jake’s last concert. The whole recording is amazing.

THe one with Shostakovich 1 too, if it was both of them, no wonder the sound was HUMONGOUS! I've heard a couple stories from WIll Druiett about Rex and how huge his sound was.

[tobysima`]

It's my belief that Stravinsky wanted clarity and rhythmic accuracy, irrespective of what instrument you pick up to play. The "Rite" has plenty of loud stuff and plenty of low stuff for the second tuba, so choose accordingly.

The last time I did it, the first tuba used a Yamaha 822 F. On the second part, I used a prototype Miraphone 188 CC AND a Besson 3+1 compensating Eb tuba (19" bell and larger John Fletcher pipe). The conductor liked the percussion really strong, so we did not 'over-play' or stick out. However, the conductor pointed us out at the dress rehearsal and the orchestra gave us a big round of applause. We really worked on it.

Remember, acoustics play into the equation as well. I saw a very major, highly paid symphony orchestra (won't name names) play "Le Sacre", in which the two tubas used F tubas throughout. The upper stuff was fine, but I could not hear their low register stuff at all. Stravinsky's desire for clarity would include low register, as well as high.

Gotta practice the low stuff on bass tuba so you can sound like a tank!

[barry grrr-ero]

Kind of a silly comment. The highly paid orchestra that I'm referring to had one, very big-name player who's as "tank" as anyone out there. His second was no slouch either. They were playing in one America's largest capacity halls and I could not hear their low register stuff. "Le Sacre" employs a very large orchestra, with an expanded brass section and lots and lots of percussion. Would you play Mahler 6 on an F tuba, or a Petite French Tuba in C? . . . I wouldn't. But since you already have the answer, do as you will.

[bloke]

(Even) when designated principal tuba, I always grab the second part, I always play it on F tuba, and I always play that low F - near the beginning - with all six valves, and the fifth valve triggered out, for accurate tuning.

[tobysima`]

Kind of a silly comment. The highly paid orchestra that I'm referring to had one, very big-name player who's as "tank" as anyone out there. His second was no slouch either. They were playing in one America's largest capacity halls and I could not hear their low register stuff. "Le Sacre" employs a very large orchestra, with an expanded brass section and lots and lots of percussion. Would you play Mahler 6 on an F tuba, or a Petite French Tuba in C? . . . I wouldn't. But since you already have the answer, do as you will.

My apologies. I just figured that there was a lack of something. It'd probably be a good idea to double up on CC or BBb tubas then? Maybe that's the solution if it's a huge orchestra. I could be wrong, though, and I definitely don't want to be insulting anybody's playing. Apologies again.

[tobysima`]

(Even) when designated principal tuba, I always grab the second part, I always play it on F tuba, and I always play that low F - near the beginning - with all six valves, and the fifth valve triggered out, for accurate tuning.

Has there ever been an occasion where chair one uses a contrabass and you use a bass?

[binlove]

(Even) when designated principal tuba, I always grab the second part, I always play it on F tuba, and I always play that low F - near the beginning - with all six valves, and the fifth valve triggered out, for accurate tuning.

Has there ever been an occasion where chair one uses a contrabass and you use a bass?

Hi Toby,

I’ve done it this way several times. Or 1st tuba is all on bass and 2nd switches between bass and contrabass.

And like bloke, all but once I had the low F played on f tuba. It is a great piece - a total hoot to play!

[tobysima`]

Hi Toby,

I’ve done it this way several times. Or 1st tuba is all on bass and 2nd switches between bass and contrabass.

And like bloke, all but once I had the low F played on f tuba. It is a great piece - a total hoot to play!

I've never played it, but back on Tubenet the what horn for what job stuff is so intriguing! Always great to hear others' perspectives! Hopefully I get to play it sometime soon!

[bloke]

I’ve never switched over to a B-flat or C tuba when playing the second part…and again, I always grab that part, as it is “the“ part. (ie. The piece would sound just about the same without the first tuba part, but probably not without the second tuba part.)

When punching those shifting meter downbeats during the dance passages with the timpani, having a bunch of valves down (cylindrical tuning) and playing those low pitches on F tuba helps the tuba to be heard in its own “right”, rather than its resonance smearing into the timpani resonance.

[bort2.0]

Kind of a silly comment. The highly paid orchestra that I'm referring to had one, very big-name player who's as "tank" as anyone out there. His second was no slouch either. They were playing in one America's largest capacity halls and I could not hear their low register stuff. "Le Sacre" employs a very large orchestra, with an expanded brass section and lots and lots of percussion. Would you play Mahler 6 on an F tuba, or a Petite French Tuba in C? . . . I wouldn't. But since you already have the answer, do as you will.

Hey Barry! Good to see you here!

[tobysima`]

I’ve never switched over to a B-flat or C tuba when playing the second part…and again, I always grab that part, as it is “the“ part. (ie. The piece would sound just about the same without the first tuba part, but probably not without the second tuba part.)

When punching those shifting meter downbeats during the dance passages with the timpani, having a bunch of valves down (cylindrical tuning) and playing those low pitches on F tuba helps the tuba to be heard in its own “right”, rather than its resonance smearing into the timpani resonance.

Probably gives some cut, too?

[bloke]

I guess I said the same thing, using too many words...

[tobysima`]

I guess I said the same thing, using too many words...

I guess I misunderstood you! Oops

[Doc]

I guess I said the same thing, using too many words...

Bass player translation:

"It cuts through the mix."