Cerveny models from Josef Lidl

[hubert]

https://www.josef-lidl.cz/

As many of you will know, after bankruptcy in 2020 the remains of Cerveny were taken over by the German Arnold Stölzel Group and integrated into the Czech Josef Lidl Company.
On the website above you can see, of which (formerly Cerveny) instruments the production was continued. Model numbers were maintained with addition of an L.
Hubert

[DonO.]

Who has the distributorship in the United States for these, if anybody?

[LeMark]

I don't get it. 12 different BBb tubas, and not a single CC? I had heard that BBb tuba was more popular in Europe, but I didn't think it was that imbalanced

[matt g]

No Eb tubas either.

[bort2.0]

I just asked both questions through their contact form. Will let you know if I hear anything from them.

[DonO.]

If they are making primarily for the European market, Bb and F predominate. If they ever try to get into the American market, the biggest part of that market is schools where Bb rules. Sounds like they’re making product that they think they can sell, which is sound business practice. Eb is a mostly British thing at this point in history and C favored in America by professionals and university students but this is a much smaller market compared with the lucrative high school band market. I ask again, does anyone know of a USA dealer who will carry these? I would love to try their version of the Piggy and/or the Arion.

[hrender]

Horn Guys in LA has one Lidl/Cerveny horn (a cimbasso) on their site. I do not know if they have any plans to expand their offerings.

[LeMark]

It would be a shame if the Cerveny piggy is dead. (even though they haven't been that good for.... 30 years)

I was hoping they would eventually bring their quality back up to the glory days

[DonO.]

I played a BBb Piggy way back in 1978. Custom Music had it at a music conference. I tell people that and they doubt me, they say there was no such thing back then. I remember quite clearly though. It was very nice and I seriously considered it. In 1983 or so I traded in my Meinl Weston 25, which I always thought was too heavily built and not very responsive, for a new Amati (Cerveny) 4 rotor Bb. I loved that horn, played easily and very responsively. It had the somewhat rectangular shaped ergonomic paddles. I wish they’d go back to that. Very comfortable. So I would have to disagree that the Piggies weren’t very good. They seemed good to me, although that day I didn’t play any upper crust horns out of my price range. I’ve always viewed the Cerveny group of brands as good quality but more economical horns for those of us not in the position to be able to afford a Rudy, Hirsbrunner, or even a Mirafone (spelled the way it was in 1978).

[LeMark]

Cerveny from the 1990's to today were not very good. Older ones are great
.
I've never seen a BBb piggy in a photo, every time someone says they have one it turns out to be an Arion. Maybe someday I'll see the unicorn

[hrender]

Assuming they have the tooling, mandrels, and craftsmen/women from the Cerveny factory, there's nothing to prevent Lidl from offering other models. My guess is that they're waiting to see how customers respond. I'm still interested in the CBB-684, which does not appear on the current roster.

[iiipopes]

I'm with hal. I think the company is in the re-start wait-and-see phase to see if there is any demand. Of course, it is chicken-and-egg: how do you have demand without a specimen to show to gauge demand.

[hubert]

I agree. If they are going to succeed in making a sound profit after the restart, we probably will see more models returning/being made for the world market.

Besides that, one cannot exclude, that the Stölzel Group may decide to bring back or launch some models under an other name, e.g. their "brand" Arnolds ans Sons. (See their website www.stoelzel-music.de for the different "brands" and products they are offering at the moment.)

Anyhow, the Cerveny-tradition is not fully lost yet. And perhaps the commercial experience of Stölzel may bring back more of it than we are seeing now.... Fingers crossed...

Hubert

[hubert]

https://www.4barsrest.com/news/37544/ge ... na-profile

And let us not forget that the (now succesfully established) British based Geneva Group (Geneva Brass Instruments) a few years ago took over the Amati Factory (Amati Denak) in Kraslice. Till then Cerveny (at Hradec Kralove) also was part of Amati Denak. It seems that Stölzel took over the Cerveny-part of Amati Denak as well as Josef Lidl at Brno, and moved the latter one to Hradec Kralove.
Hubert

[greenbean]

Cerveny had a BBb Piggy (model 603) on their website for the past several years. Yes, they called it a Piggy. I now see the same model on Lidl's website. I would love to have one. I haven't been to Europe in 20 years. But the next time I go... who knows what I will bring back.

[donn]

Cerveny B Tuba CBB 603-4PX


(Not guaranteeing that image is really representative of the CBB 603 - not the most carefully done web site ever.)

[LeMark]

Yes, I've seen that photo, what I'm saying is I've never seen one that wasn't just a photo on a Website.

A lot of people confuse the 795 bore Arion ( common) with the BBb piggy. (apparently very rare)

Maybe someday we will have a confirmed sighting

[hubert]

https://www.saxontheweb.net/threads/ama ... ip.386963/

Soooo confusing: it just saw a message that the Amati Denak Factory in Kraslice, several years ago bought by the British Geneva Group, in 2021 again was taken over by a Czech Company called Amati Kraslice (vyrobni druzstvo).
According to their catalogues (see link) they intend to continue all former Amati and Cerveny products. But there still seems to be no (new) representative in USA. The former Amati branch in New York earlier was taken over by Geneva Group.
Perhaps interesting to ask the contact in Kraslice directly about the situation and their plans. Bort, already done??

So it looks
1. like Stoelzel Group now is producing Josef Lidl instruments (including some former Cerveny models) and probably Arnolds and Sons-products in Hradec Kralove in the former Cerveny Factory (bought by Stoelzel);
2. like Amati Kraslice is again producing or going to produce the Amati and Cerveny models in the factory at Kraslice.
3. like Geneva Group acts as a partner or a contractor in the Amati Kraslice factory (as far as I can see Geneva production still must originate from there).
Years ago I once was at the Amati factory and was told that Amati with its enormous facilities and a workforce of around 200 at Kraslice had a long tradition of producing instruments for a bunch of other brands. So, nowadays for Geneva, too???

Or, am I mistaken? Who can correct or add information?
Hubert

[bloke]

re: a few posts above

I’ve often wondered how many C tubas there would be in the world were it not for American college teachers – mostly since the 1970s or so – encouraging or (occasionally) goading their students into ordering them.

[DonO.]

bloke-I’ve often wondered the same thing. When did the whole CC thing start? Who was the first player of note to start using a CC? I would assume others started wanting to emulate him, whoever he was. For myself, I never saw the need to change from BBb. My college teacher was not a tuba specialist (trombone guy who taught all the brass players), thus he had no problem with letting me continue to play BBb. At the graduate level, my private teacher was a professional tuba player with a full time symphony position, but he was a relative rarity in the world of symphonic tuba players, as he played a BBb. So no problem for me there either. I was never subjected to the “BBb Inferiority Complex”. There is, at least in America, a collegiate/professional thing going on that has the subliminal message “You’ll never be taken seriously unless you play CC.”