Willson 3200 impressions and review

[prairieboy1]

Best of luck with your new horn! Please add a story and some pictures about your trip. Interested here in Canada!

[Sousaswag]

Hi again! Here are details of my trip, and what I like to do when road-tripping for a tuba! I'll add photos later, my school network blocks just about everything so I can't upload them right now.

I found this tuba on Facebook in the Tuba-Euphonium Marketplace. The seller was looking to get into Eb as his playing needs have changed. I didn't particularly love Eb, and felt more comfortable on F overall. That, and the fact that I'd seen exactly one of these for sale for about $4,000 more than what I paid for this one, made me want this tuba. I'd never played a big Willson F and nobody around me has this particular horn. I had played the compact model but it was really pitchy. Like, really pitchy.

In December I contacted the owner. Somebody was going to purchase it before me but that fell through, luckily, and he was willing to hold it for me until I went on Spring Break. It took a bit, but in February I was finally able to sell that Eb and get a check made for this Willson. I broke even on that sale/purchase, but actually sold the Eb for more than what I bought it for.

So, spring break was coming up, but because gas is what it is right now, neither of us really wanted to drive a long distance. I'm in a 2006 Ford F-150, and have been for the last 3 years. I love it to death, but getting 12 MPG in the city hasn't been kind to my wallet. I had originally planned for my girlfriend to pick this horn up as she and her family were actually on their way to CO over spring break. Unfortunately, that didn't happen as they didn't end up having enough room. Shoot! So, now I was planning to FLY out there for one day, and fly back to IL with the horn. The seller even offered to pay for a seat for this tuba. Really, really nice guy and a great offer.

HOWEVER! He found a 983 Eb for less money than this tuba, was willing to get a rental car, and meet me somewhere in Iowa to help save me some gas. Again, very stand up guy. I very much appreciated that! We decided to meet at a gas station near this middle-of-nowhere town of Atlantic, Iowa. So, he got his rental and headed out, and I hopped in my truck and left a few hours later.

Side-note about vehicle choice: While it may not be the most practical vehicle in the world, my F-150 has been DEAD reliable. It's gone on three or four tuba excursions to Michigan, Southern Illinois, and now rural Iowa, up to 12 hours driving in one day, and it's been absolutely wonderful to me. There's something to be said about comfortability in big vehicles. I complain a lot about my gas bills, but I've only got 60,000 miles on this old truck. Bought it at 42,000. Again, dead reliable. I packed up a few bottles of coke, brought some sandwiches with me, and headed out from my home at about 1PM, and arrived at our destination about 7PM. I set cruise at 65 the whole way there and got 18MPG. Pretty good for the old girl. That's about as good as I can get with an old V8. In total, my gas bill was around $150, which is about what I expected. Gas was cheaper in Iowa by about a dollar a gallon. Sweet!

Anyway, long drive over, we met and chatted for a bit, then both made the drive home, I with tuba and him with money. The midwest is *really* boring. There is literally NOTHING to look at for most of the way. Driving through Des Moines was cool. I'd never been there before. And, I stopped at the world's largest truck stop, which was also pretty cool! I took no photos, I basically filled my tank, grabbed some food, and kept going. At this point it was about 10PM or so, and after 3ish hours on the road, I was ready to be home.

I don't have much to say about the drive, really. Like I said, I set cruise at 65 and never touched my brake for most of that journey. I don't have bluetooth in my truck, so I have a whole lot of CDs. My favorite album is by They Might be Giants, called Flood, and I've listened to that since I was little, so that was my music listening, for the most part. I also love podcasts and listened to several of those. It would be nice to have a passenger for these trips, but I've mostly gone solo on my tuba trips, and towards the end of the drive, you really start to get tired. I arrived home at about 1AM.

I will say, plan these things as early as possible. Nobody likes driving really late at night. For my last horn I left at 3AM but was home by 1PM. That was to Michigan, which was also a super boring drive. I do like seeing new places and I stopped in Des Moines to fill up but just took everything in. Something different than where I live is always a fun experience. So, for a 12 hour drive, it really wasn't all that bad! Bring food, caffeine, and good music if by yourself, and you will enjoy yourself! And you get yourself a tuba out of it!

Alternatively, bring somebody along and make a weekend trip out of it. That would've been great had anybody's spring break lined up with mine. I would love to hang out in new places for a few days. Find some good beer, take in new sights, et al.

That is all. Photos to come later! Thanks for reading!

[prairieboy1]

Thanks for your report. Always great to read about new tuba experiences!

[the elephant]

"Flood" is good listening. That came out when I was a junior at North Texas.

[Sousaswag]

Here is my 72-hours of ownership update.

I've been playing this tuba with my kiddos at school as I teach pull-out lessons, and it will be the euphonium voice at a festival performance this weekend.

I've really been enjoying this instrument. Pitch is actually really good. I really only need to pull first for A and Bb at the bottom of the staff. Everything else lines up with slides set as I've seen fit.

Being such a large F tuba, posture has been great. If I haven't mentioned it before, a few of my previous tubas have been too short or the leadpipe has been too low. It really bugged me. I'm 6'3" with a long back, and this F tuba, being as large as it is, with a higher leadpipe, allows me to sit up straight with no issues. Most rotary F tubas that I've played are too low for me. And, the Mack piston F, compact 3200, even the Adams have been too short for me to play. I tend to dwell on that if I'm not totally comfortable playing a horn. I know, I know, use a stand, but I'd have to raise the thing way up out of my lap and it looks dumb.

Valve placement seems good, nothing uncomfortable there, and 5th is in a good place for my thumb. Just waiting on that darned thumb ring.

High register is actually quite comfy and I really like the sound it makes. As I mentioned previously, it's not particularly euphonium-sounding. And I didn't want that. It sounds like tuba, but I can pretend to be a euphonium with middle school band music all I want. I have no issues playing in-tune and with a good sound.

It does need some slide pulling as I mentioned, BUT there is nothing hopelessly out of tune.

I do think the rotax valve is strange. It may be just out of alignment too, but I'm noticing a bit more resistance when using the 5th valve for Bb, at least as compared to the mighty low C on this tuba. I love that note. And I feel like the Bb should be as good, if not better, but it's slightly less open. Having that rotax cut to a normal valve will likely help. The tuba goes in this evening to be cleaned up.

I like this tuba a LOT better than my previous 2141. That horn and I didn't really get along and I felt like I was constantly fighting it.

I would like to ask again: Does anybody have any suggestions for really cleaning a cordura gig bag? It's just hopelessly filthy with old oils and grease, animal hair, etc. It's gross. I got most of the hair off, but all the stains remain. Let me know your tips or tricks; I'd appreciate it!

[bort2.0]

I do think the rotax valve is strange. It may be just out of alignment too, but I'm noticing a bit more resistance when using the 5th valve for Bb, at least as compared to the mighty low C on this tuba. I love that note. And I feel like the Bb should be as good, if not better, but it's slightly less open. Having that rotax cut to a normal valve will likely help. The tuba goes in this evening to be cleaned up.

I like this tuba a LOT better than my previous 2141. That horn and I didn't really get along and I felt like I was constantly fighting it.

I would like to ask again: Does anybody have any suggestions for really cleaning a cordura gig bag? It's just hopelessly filthy with old oils and grease, animal hair, etc. It's gross. I got most of the hair off, but all the stains remain. Let me know your tips or tricks; I'd appreciate it!

Great to hear that it's working out!

For the rotax, give it a fair chance with a fresh alignment first. To be honest, my tuba played just fine with the Rotax valves, it just played better after the modification. And many F tubas that I've tried have some kind of funkiness in the low register. Not always tragic, but there are notes that need to be played a little differently than others. The classic is the low C. But when the low C is good, then that funkiness may have just been shifted down to the B or Bb. It's just a lot of tubing to blow the air through, and in a register that already needs some extra attention.

Not saying this is you, but I think sometimes we see those low C and low Bb notes and think "oh, those aren't so low... why is it hard to play them?" But they are so far down in the playable range of the F tuba based on the partial and the amount of added tubing on top of that.

Similarly, I don't think low Eb is a great note on many CC tubas, either. Even when the F is just fine.

Cordura.com mentions dry cleaning solution for the stains... maybe take it in to the dry cleaner? At some point, however, you may need to just replace it. I had a grungy (not gross, just heavily worn) Tuba World gig bag for a tuba I previously owned, and I hated that bag so much. I think I may not have enjoyed the tuba the way I should have, because every time I played the horn I had to deal with that awful gig bag.

[the elephant]

Here is a nice comparison shot. (I stole your photo for this. Sorry!)

My Kurath (made in 1987), the forerunner of your Willson 3200 FA-5, is nearly identical to your later horn except that mine came with a J. Meinlschmidt 5th rotor rather than the Rotax. I believe the 3200 *always* had the Rotax, to be honest, while the Kuraths *never* had them. I think the invention and subsequent inclusion of them on his F tuba was one of the main things that marked his rebranding of the horn.

Currently, my horn has an additional 6th valve, with both rotors being Miraphone products. I also altered the bore profiles a little to make them make more sense, at least on paper. I am sure he messed with this, so perhaps my liking everything that I did better than what he did is a placebo effect thing (or emotional self-preservation?), but maybe not. Your horn is (or I *think* it is) 18 mm through 1, 2, and 3, 19 mm 4th, and likely 20 or 21 mm on the Rotax. Mine is (according to Miraphone) 17.95 mm through 1 and 2, 18.78 mm through 3rd, 19.54 mm through 4th and 6th, and 20.35 mm through 5th. I monkeyed with the MTS a lot, too.

To be bluntly honest, all that tweaking and fooling around with sacrosanct bores and such made pretty much zero difference. Oddly, though, I made a lot of small changes that I thought would make it a better tuba for work after ten years of coping with them, and it seems that I ended up making it MORE like the later 3200, so I guess Herr Kurath and I think at least somewhat alike. I am surprised at how much my completely rebuilt Kurath matches your 3200. There was a lot more divergence before I did all this work. How cool is that?

Enjoy your tuba. These are a lot of fun to play. I really like mine.

[greenbean]

I love hearing about tuba adventures! I hope to take a few someday... But, so far, it was a 2-hour drive to a town in the Central Valley of California to pick up a smashed-up school Mirafone. It qualified as a boring drive...

For your grubby Cronkhite: Stick it in a commercial washing machine, just like you would with any large item - sleeping bag, backpack, whatever. I would spray the grubby areas with degreaser or similar laundry product like Shout. After an hour or two, run the machine on the "heavily soiled" setting and high speed spin cycle. Keep it completely unzipped.`Then a trip in the dryer on low heat.

[YorkNumber3.0]

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[Sousaswag]

Thanks for all the comments!

I will definitely be taking that case to clean it. I got some degreaser today.

I took the tuba to Keith yesterday, and we don't anticipate a bunch of extra work like we had to do on that Eb. No popped braces, bad joints, or leadpipe dents to speak of here. Just a cleaning and very minor bell dings.

There is that rot starting in the slide crooks. Second is the worst offender, and 3rd has some very minor pitting beginning to show. But, if it doesn't leak, I don't really care. No sense in spending money on it when it's not through yet. I'll just keep an eye on it.

In about 30 seconds he fixed the clanky fifth linkage. Yay! I can't wait to get it back. I will update again when I do.

[Sousaswag]

Tuba is back from Keith's shop.

He did a great job! No more clinky-clanky 5th linkage, no more LOUD pistons, no more bell dents.

The pitting on the slides hasn't gone through at all. He told me not to worry about it and just play the horn. I shall do that. It is confirmed to be in great shape. My Yamaha springs haven't come in, yet. Can't wait to try them.

The quality on this tuba is really second to none. Check out those valve buttons. REAL mother-of-pearl inlays, not the plastic-feeling stuff in the MW/B&S horns.

And, no surprises like on the last horn I took to him. No popped braces, bad ferrule solder joints, nothing. Just a very well-built tuba that needed a cleaning and very minor dent work.

It's really an extraordinary player. I spent a lot of time with it today and it's just awesome.

Enjoy a photo of my clean tuba.

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[bort2.0]

Wow, that looks amazing! 2x congrats to you!!

[Sousaswag]

Thumb ring came in!

Now, for $140, I thought they'd send me the mounting hardware. They did not. No big deal, Ace Hardware has the correct screws for these things. $.99 out the door. No problem.

It is super light, which is not something I'd expect from Willson. I'm told that their thumb rings are actually hollow. Neat!

I love the shape and feel of the Willson rings. Just super nice, big, and comfortable. Lock that screw down (metric, by the way), and it won't move.

As far as finish, I'm less impressed. For some reason, and I think I've mentioned this in my previous post(s), Willson *sucks* at lacquering things. On a small piece like this, especially for the price I paid for it, I thought it would have a much nicer finish. In my close-up photos I did my best to show the imperfections. On the inside of the ring especially it's not particularly smooth. It seems like they can't get their lacquer quite right. I always see huge wear patches on their instruments. Anyone else agree?

I don't really care, to be fair, the horn has a bunch of lacquer wear anyway, but it seems like they might've had this just lying around in a parts bin somewhere as opposed to having to make it, which might explain the finish.

Bottom line, I'm much more comfortable with the ring there, I like how it feels, and I'm happy that it's here.

For those wondering, it took about two weeks to arrive at my door from the time I ordered.

I will also add, the Yamaha springs make a HUGE difference. Highly recommended if you've been considering them. Compared to the stock springs they are just so light, and I really like them.

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[Sousaswag]

6 month update!

I've been playing this tuba a lot! It's being played right now in a HUGE community band with too many tubas. Danzon No. 2, Sensamaya, and a Sousa march.

Recently, I read through Wade's Holton 345 rebuild thread where he discovered leaky pistons. This tuba has had a problem with Bb at the bottom of the staff being wicked sharp, while everything below it needed the slide almost all the way in. I also had an issue with the low Bb not being as good as the C right above it. Weird that the C was great but the Bb not.

On a whim after reading Wade's post, I went out and got some Ultra Pure Black Label thick valve oil. I thought that, similar to Wade's Holton, my pistons could be slightly leaky. We know that while they (Willson) build things really well, the yellow brass tubing is pretty weak. I don't know how to test if the pistons are leaking, but regardless, thicker valve oil gave me some RESULTS!!!

Low Bb now centers just as well as the low C, no issue. Intonation is fixed with the octave Bb- it's now not so sharp, and Eb below the staff isn't so flat that the slide needs to be all the way in. Voodoo magic? Practice? Leaks sealed? I don't know, but what I DO know is that the horn plays better with this Ultra Pure stuff, rather than the Yamaha Synthetic I'd been using.

So, if you have an old horn, maybe try this method and see what happens?

I still love this tuba- loved it even with the piston F tuba weirdness. Now it's just better!

[the elephant]

i started using 50/50 lamp oil and 3-in-one on both my tubas with the old Nirschl piston sets. The Holton 345 CC and the Kurath F were (unfortunately) greatly improved with this blend.

Playng issues "duct taped" to a high standard!

Of course, this means very expensive and time consuming valve rebuilds sometime in the next few years. <sigh>

But both tubas a a LOT of fun to play now. They both has leadpipes with slower tapers, too, and this also helped tons of stuff on both tubas, which are both nominally 6/4 horns within their key groups. I think some people slap some stupid-large leadpipes on horns that are verging on too large, and shove them right off the cliff onto the rocks below. I believe big tubas usually do better with smaller small ends. I did not used to think this way, but my 2265 prototype with the 45SLP leadpipe make me start listening to Joe more about this specific topic.

I am stoked for you and your obvious love for this huge tuba. It is fun at first. Then you spend some time doing the whole "WTF?" thing, then you either figure it out or put it up for sale. I loved mine for about a year, then started hating it. Now that I have completely rebuit it to where a lot more of its potential is being met I love it again.

I never bonded with my 621 F. If it had been stolen I would have accepted the insurance check and just bought some other horn, without much remorse for the little Yamaha. I might have gotten another one, and I might not. If I lost the Kurath I would be very upset, regardless of any payout.