Why was the Gronitz PCM not popular?

[russiantuba]

Lee Stofer had an amazing Gronitz PCM at his booth (silver, hardcase, $7500, pictured below). Probably the first time I have asked my wife if I could get a horn. There are very few horns I have considered letting my 1291CC go for (as it was my first tuba and plays well). The first one is a factory original 4/4 York CC that was a must. I’ve played an Alexander CC and a Kalison DS that were very close but not enough. This PCM was one that made me consider.

I play a Gronitz PF 125. I’ve seen several of those over the years, but I’ve only seen 1 PCM before this one, a local tubist had one that was crushed in a shipping accident to Arizona and when I tried it, needed a ton of work still. Overall, the horn had a very even sound, lots of color with great response. Tuning was different, but very workable. I’m assuming the overall price and the “you must play a 6/4 York CC copy” trend is why these horns weren’t that popular?

I wasn’t the only one from this forum who really wanted to pick this horn up.

[bloke]

I tried one out (my friend ordered it, we both tried it and he sent it back), when Tuba Exchange was offering free r/t shipping for trials, and back when stuff like that cost much less (as I bought a PCK for $6K).

PCM wise (and - eventually - PCK-wise as well) here were a couple of intonation things for which I could find no work-arounds (and the same with my friend).
Otherwise, it wasn't "bad", but (DUCK !!! another blokeanalogy is headed your way !!!) I don't believe I would ask a "wasn't bad" out on a second date.

It's ALWAYS a REALLY good idea to bring a $15 dollar tuner - or have an app on the phone, when trying out "strange".

[bort2.0]

I almost bought one from Tony Clements a few years ago. There is (was?) one out in California as well, plus another that was somewhere else.

As I understand it, they are all one-offs, and none were exactly like each other. I think scarcity and price are big factors, plus if you do get to try one, it may not be representative of the model in general.

IIRC, they were generally regarded as having a gorgeous sound, pretty good intonation, and a good amount of sound.

But again, more than anything, I'd expect price and scarcity are as big of factors as anything.

[jtuba]

Having owned one for a few years, I enjoyed the sound up close, but when I listen back to ensemble recordings I'm not convinced my projection was there. It had quick response, manageable pitch. But I'm playing more "vibrantly" today than years ago, so I may not have the same projection qualms.

That horn exhibited and any my horn had the same leadpipe layout, and that's why I eventually sold it. It's really long and comes around the bell quite far and obscures my playing vision. And I never understood why the fifth valve circuit came out front instead of behind. It wasn't the most comfortable to hold for me

[bort2.0]

I've heard that about projection, too.

[Sousaswag]

I think scarcity is the biggest factor here. You just don’t see a lot of Gronitz tubas, period. I’ve played one model 125 and one PCK. I liked the PCK but I felt that I would’ve dented it just by looking at it wrong. The 125 was nice but not $8,XXX nice.

Pricing on the PCM’s, however, always seem to be pretty good for what it is. I’d love the chance to play one. I think $7,500 is fair. YMMV.

[hrender]

It seems like the Gronitz horns "had a moment" about 15-20 years ago. They're much less seen now. Horn Guys still lists the PCK for pre-order and Brass Ark has a used PCM for $7800. It's been there for a while.

[bort2.0]

Two videos with a Gronitz PCM in action. The other tuba is a Miraphone 1291. Obviously this is only partially useful, but they are well played and -- at least together -- they sound quite nice.

[bort2.0]

Also interesting to note that the new Klinspor-rebooted Gronitz tubas have MAW valves.

[jtuba]

It seems like the Gronitz horns "had a moment" about 15-20 years ago. They're much less seen now.

Coinciding with a prominent player winning three big auditions in a row on the PCK.

[matt g]

Gronitz wasn’t ever a very big shop, was it?

The PCM had a lot of competition from several companies. And they were likely focused on making PCKs anyhow.

[russiantuba]

Also interesting to note that the new Klinspor-rebooted Gronitz tubas have MAW valves.

I’m told the MAW valve ones are not nearly as good from a few sources. Gronitz does have a small shop, and I enjoy my F. I am still tempted to sell a kidney for the PCM

[bloke]

' funny to think that i owned a PCK for a few years (there's a commercial recording of the Glière Horn Concerto - Eric Ruske - on which it can be heard occasionally), had a PCM in my house for a few days, and BOUGHT (used - absolutely like new) a Gronitz 125 piston F tuba (which I played for ten minutes, and sold within ten days) which I bought SIMPLY BECAUSE they never appeared at ANY shows, there were tons of hype, and that was the only way I could play-test one.

I now recall that the 4th valve range on the PCK felt so "funny" to me that - whenever I possibly could - I found myself playing it as a 3-valve tuba.

(Wasn't there a US music store that figured out where the Gronitz parts were being acquired, and built a few of their own "PCK" tubas - which they offered to the market ?)

Adjusted for 2022 inflation, I believe I pocketed about $6500 in additional dough - between dumping the PCK and the 125...
...so I'm glad that I bought them, and glad that I sold them...I just wish that I still had the extra $6500, so I could buy a tank of gas.

[kyleturnertuba]

I am revisiting this post because I am considering selling my Gronitz PCM CC tuba in (rare) lacquer.
This has been my go to, do it all tuba for many years. It is approximately 20 years old. I am the second owner. The first owner was (formaly) the tuba player in the Memphis Symphony.
The low register on this tuba is fantastic! The valves are as good as any piston valves I have ever played. This model is considered a 4/4, but to my ears it sounds and plays more like a small 5/4. It is a little warmer and has a bigger low register than the Miraphone 188. It is incredibly responsive and open. The metal is light weight. I would sell this tuba with a hard and a soft case. There are scratches and blemishes on it, but many are hidden and cannot be seen at a distance. No dents. There's one worn off lacquer spot on the bell. I'm not sure of a price yet. Make me an offer. I will not ship. Look for my For Sale post soon. Or contact me here: kyleturnertuba@gmail.com
http://www.kturnertuba.com
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ ... fit=bounds

[bort2.0]

I am revisiting this post because I am considering selling my Gronitz PCM CC tuba in (rare) lacquer.
This has been my go to, do it all tuba for many years. It is approximately 20 years old. I am the second owner. The first owner was (formaly) the tuba player in the Memphis Symphony.
The low register on this tuba is fantastic! The valves are as good as any piston valves I have ever played. This model is considered a 4/4, but to my ears it sounds and plays more like a small 5/4. It is a little warmer and has a bigger low register than the Miraphone 188. It is incredibly responsive and open. The metal is light weight. I would sell this tuba with a hard and a soft case. There are scratches and blemishes on it, but many are hidden and cannot be seen at a distance. No dents. There's one worn off lacquer spot on the bell. I'm not sure of a price yet. Make me an offer. I will not ship. Look for my For Sale post soon. Or contact me here: kyleturnertuba@gmail.com
http://www.kturnertuba.com
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ ... fit=bounds

Sounds like a nice tuba! 20 years is a long time... What tuba are you using instead?

[kyleturnertuba]

I play a Meinl Weston Thor, silver, and a Meinl Weston 2250 NP F.