Lignatone BBb Tuba

[Estubist]

On Wednesday I bought an old Lignatone tuba. Four rotary valves, at least 4/4, 40'' tall with a 16'' (40 cm) bell. I needed a second BBb tuba for outside. It was a good offer, so I took it. It needs cleaning and some repairs: two tuning slides are stuck and the first valve does not work optimally. But it's in good shape apart from a few dents and has a nice sound. I assume the tuba is from the 60's or 70's.
I am attaching a few photos. There is neither a model designation nor a serial number. Does anyone have information on this type of tuba?

[Estubist]

Here in comparison to my Cerveny

[DonO.]

Lignatone tubas were made by Cerveny. The wide brace connecting the main tuning slide to the bottom bow is the dead giveaway. I see it has the Nutbuster. I hate those. But otherwise I’ll bet it’s a good horn once you put the needed work into it.

[Estubist]

Lignatone tubas were made by Cerveny. The wide brace connecting the main tuning slide to the bottom bow is the dead giveaway. I see it has the Nutbuster. I hate those. But otherwise I’ll bet it’s a good horn once you put the needed work into it.

Nutbuster?

[bort2.0]

The keel

[Estubist]

Yes, most german/bohemian rotary tubas of that era have that. You get used to it.

[hrender]

I call it the thigh slicer, but yeah, you get used to it, usually by resting it on something other than your flesh.

[Estubist]

I read that Lignatone, Cerveny, Amati, Stowasser... were brands of Amati-Denak.
Would like to know which Cerveny model my Lignatone corresponds to. Maybe the 681 (or Amati 481)?

[DonO.]

Looks more like a 686?

[hrender]

686 (current version) has a wider bell. It's more in the X81 (4/6/7) series. Might be close to a 481. Height is 1.5 inches more than the current X81 series, but that might be with the keel. It's got the older-style paddles you would see in the 1970s-80s

[donn]

It does indeed look fairly old to me, like '80s or older - an era where I guess the Amati/Cerveny thing was a complex and poorly understood association of small factories - but just wanted to point out that clock springs aren't a super reliable key to date of manufacture. Cerveny still lists an oval "euphonium" with clock spring valves, and that kind of valves probably lived on in the tuba factories for a while after they were mostly replaced at Cerveny by helical springs with long paddles. Maybe one factory made the body sections, others made valve sections and "Cerveny", "Amati" etc. put them together with their favorite finishing touches; the Lignatone horns like the Eb helicon I had seem more Amati than Cerveny in that sense.

[hrender]

The model 883-5PZX on the old Cerveny.biz website has/had clocksprings. I have no idea if the new ownership will put it back into production.