Identify these finger buttons? I need 3 more!

[arpthark]

I believe they might be early Conn. any idea? And anybody got anything similar rattling around?

[bloke]

If you expect help, someone’s going to need a diameter of some part of it that they can measure with calipers. That looks like a lot of finger buttons that were made in a range of sizes, and - for that matter - with various thread sizes.

[bort2.0]

Looks like the ones on my Martin Eb

[arpthark]

They are 3/4" diameter and 1/3" high.

Thanks all!

[windshieldbug]

I agree with bloke… the threads matter, even if the buttons are a match!

[bort2.0]

Are these finger buttons currently on a tuba?
How many fingers do you even have, anyway?

[arpthark]

Are these finger buttons currently on a tuba?
How many fingers do you even have, anyway?

Hey now! If you take the average number between both hands, I have a perfectly normal number of fingers.

I may be asking the wrong question; allow me to clarify. I recently acquired an old, old Czech or German helicon with missing valve buttons. It will be a fun Tuba Christmas horn this year.

On a whim, I took the buttons off of a frankentuba I also recently acquired -- not exactly sure what the valve section is. I think it's from a Conn Eb sousaphone or old 3v front action Conn Eb tuba. These Conn(?) buttons fit the helicon stems. I also have an old King button but the thread is too big for the helicon stems.

I'd just like to be on the lookout for a matching set that fits, but I'm not sure how to measure the threading.

Thanks all!

[the elephant]

Go to a hardware store (a real one and not a Big Box) and screw them into a thread checker, which is usually hanging on one end of the hardware aisle.

These buttons are likely 6-32 or 8-32 or some metric equivalent. They look just like one of the replacement buttons sold by Allied.

Find out what you have first. Then someone here will probably be able to help you locate what you need (if they don’t have some to sell you).

[arpthark]

They are indeed 8-32 or M4x0.7. My local Ace Hardware didn't disappoint.

[the elephant]

Try to find a local shop that has some Allied A327 sousaphone buttons in stock to see how they fit your horn. Keep in mind that not only do the threads have to work, but the button has to be able to go down the correct amount, and the skirt can sometimes cause this to not work out. Check the fit, then peek down the 2nd slide to see if the port of the piston lines up correctly with the valve pressed. Up fitment is controlled by corks or felts, and the Down can be, too, so long as the skirt allows the valve to go down all the way.

These are not the same as yours but are close (good enough) copies. They are not too expensive. If you can confirm that they fit your horn correctly you can request the shop order you a set.



Yes, the skirt edge ring *is* knurled; the photo sucks. These are only available in brass, I *think*.

[2nd tenor]

They are indeed 8-32 or M4x0.7. My local Ace Hardware didn't disappoint.

I recently acquired an old, old Czech or German helicon with missing valve buttons.

I think it quite unlikely that your Tuba from Continental Europe will have parts with North American threads. That’s not to say that by some fluke a North American item will not work but rather that it’s chancy and might cause damage. Now that you have the rough size I suggest buying some M4 and some 8-32 screws - ideally in brass because that’s softer than steel - and seeing what easily threads into the valves stems. Metric valve buttons might be a right pain to source, I wonder what’s supplied on the Japanese, Taiwanese and Chinese instruments.

[arpthark]

They are indeed 8-32 or M4x0.7. My local Ace Hardware didn't disappoint.

I recently acquired an old, old Czech or German helicon with missing valve buttons.

I think it quite unlikely that your Tuba from Continental Europe will have parts with North American threads. That’s not to say that by some fluke a North American item will not work but rather that it’s chancy and might cause damage. Now that you have the rough size I suggest buying some M4 and some 8-32 screws - ideally in brass because that’s softer than steel - and seeing what easily threads into the valves stems. Metric valve buttons might be a right pain to source, I wonder what’s supplied on the Japanese, Taiwanese and Chinese instruments.

Certainly my thought as well, but for the purpose of this ancient-and-only-somewhat-playable tuba I am not too concerned as long as it's close. I brought both the original stem and the donor finger button to check the thread, and both fit reasonably well in the 8-32 and the M4x0.7. The metric fit the stem a hair better, but if it's easier to find the SAE part then I'll use those, no sweat.

[bloke]

In the past, even King (ref: 8-32) made some small buttons that resemble that somewhat.

An exact OD would be helpful to anyone that might be willing to look through their junk, as well as an exact height.

[arpthark]

In the past, even King (ref: 8-32) made some small buttons that resemble that somewhat.

An exact OD would be helpful to anyone that might be willing to look through their junk, as well as an exact height.

I took digital calipers to the buttons: I seem to be getting 0.78" on two while one is 0.77". The height of just the cap is 0.32" while if you include the threaded rod it brings it to 0.45"... but anything in that ballpark should work, I'm thinking.

I am very appreciative to anybody who's looking through their junk on my behalf.

[bloke]

That should help quite a bit.

I've found that the Holton 345 buttons are even 8-32, as the skinny little nickel-plated valve stems that Allied Supply claims fit Olds O-99 tubas are (actually) too short for Olds, but just right for those huge Holton tubas (as well as - seemingly - against logic) the correct length.

Those stems can be attached to Olds pistons and buttons (though they are too short) and they ALSO fit the tiny little 345 buttons, so that tells me that those tiny Holton 345 buttons are 8-32 threaded...

(sorry for the confusing "if/then" blather, just above)

...is your instrument King, Holton, Olds, or unknown?

[arpthark]

...is your instrument King, Holton, Olds, or unknown?

The helicon I need finger buttons for is a 100+ year old European model (marked "Cid" or somesuch), but the finger buttons I had handy that ended up fitting the helicon are from a Frankentuba of unknown provenance that was very generously given to me. It has a Lyon & Healy bell and I believe the valve section comes from some 3-valve Eb sousaphone (.650" bore) and a King sousaphone 4th valve. Here is a photo of the valveset:



But for the issue of my post, I think just sourcing the 3 matching 8-32 threaded buttons that Wade mentioned will be enough for my needs to get the helicon somewhat playable as a cheap and fun Tuba Christmas horn this year.

Thank you all for your assistance!

[bloke]

Allied Supply has generic tuba-size and baritone-size buttons in 8-32 with very similar appearance(s) to yours.

...maybe, you've already solved your problem...but (though we're experiencing hyperinflation) those buttons aren't that expensive, and your local guy can get them for you.

[the elephant]

I see you read my post, then.

[bloke]

not until just now - candidly - just after I logged back out.