POLL: shorty/fatty (York-like) Holton B-flat tuba with 19-inch bell...

[bloke]

OK...
I needed a little bit of crap from the Getzens' jobber shelves, and needed some add-on stuff to make up a minimum order, so I went ahead and bought the new not-ragged-out top caps that this instrument deserves.

Not only do they look 100% better, but they also tighten and loosen 100% easier.

I'll toss the other four (that I scrounged from various boxes of crap, around here) in my "Olds" box, to save for replacing missing caps on Olds school horns - for which they are all plenty good enough.

[Three Valves]

Blingy!!

[bloke]

I admit that I really only bought them to look better - as the other ones were cut up and scuffed up, but was particularly pleased when they threaded so much better than the others.

[bort2.0]

I admit that I really only bought them to look better - as the other ones were cut up and scuffed up, but was particularly pleased when they threaded so much better than the others.

You sound surprised by this...?

[bloke]

I admit that I really only bought them to look better - as the other ones were cut up and scuffed up, but was particularly pleased when they threaded so much better than the others.

You sound surprised by this...?

I didn't know whether it was the male threads or the cap threads...or because I was screwing Olds caps on to King casings...

...but it was (simply) because those caps were all beat up.

[bloke]

The older I get to more sentimental I become (we lost sweet Mr. Dusty, today), and the more I embrace "life's simple pleasures".

today's simple pleasure:

Adding a simple lid strap to this Holton tuba's case, so that it doesn't flop backwards and go "WHAM!"

(Mrs. bloke stitched the ends with her upholstery sewing machine, and I found a couple of thicker-diameter black-colored pop rivets - and washers to match.)

This is the case that Mrs. bloke nearly completely reupholstered - from scratch - to perfectly fit this instrument:


What a fine fellow, and what a distinct honor to have had him as a family member:


oh yeah...
...and it has been suggested that Mrs. bloke start up her own custom case company - putting all of these bag-men out of bidnuss...

[Three Valves]

Traditional cases need a cross shoulder strap to help with the lugging.

[bloke]

Traditional cases need a cross shoulder strap to help with the lugging.

Perhaps, but those D rings would have to be super-reinforced, considering that a plastic case is several pounds heavier than a high-quality bag...and I've never figured out how to dance that routine without the thing banging against my legs, so...

Rather than that, I park next to the stage door, and - if there's no parking next to the stage door - I pull up to the stage door, put on my flashers, set my case on one of the backstage tables, and go park.

One orchestra has asked us to park out in front of the hall (with the peons, on concert nights - even if raining) so that the high-roller donors can park down by the stage door and lower level side doors (near their *orchestra seats). The bass players and I are hard of hearing, and continue to park down there during the concerts - where we've always parked.

bloke "The big donors aren't really interested in the concerts, but are interested in BEING SEEN. Those expensive 'orchestra' seats are THE WORST seats in the house in most any concert hall."
____________________________
*

[Rick Denney]

Sorry about the kitty. I hate losing the kitties, and we’ve lost a few. :(

Rick “current cat still young and full of energy” Denney

[tofu]

.

[Three Valves]

During the CSO Brass concert back in December they recognized a donor who had endowed the concerts in perpetuity. From the stage they asked him to stand and be recognized. I looked to the usual high roller society seating - nobody stood - then I realized the guy was sitting just in front of me (this is the part of Orchestra Hall I think has the best sound & where I always try to sit but nobody is going to see you) and he reluctantly stood up. My immediate thought was "this guy is a real music lover and not the usual rich society patron donor just here to be seen".

That Abe Froman is one hell of a guy!!

[bloke]

This may be the best picture yet of this instrument, because it's pictured next to people and other instruments, which shows really well how friggin' short it actually is (particularly, compared to how wide its bell flare is).

I'm not a "Wayne" nor a "Mark"...' only 6'1", fwiw.

Some of you may (again) recognize one or more of the trombonists...Jaime Morales, Michael Hosford, Chris Davis

[bort2.0]

That IS short. What is the height?

I thought my Martin was short (32"), but yours looks smaller than that... Maybe...?

[bloke]

That IS short. What is the height?

I thought my Martin was short (32"), but yours looks smaller than that... Maybe...?

' same...but with a 19" bell, it comes closer to approaching the shape of a sphere or cube, and less like a cylinder.

The Miraphone straight-bell kaiser B-flat baritones (American name: "tenor tubas") are c. 31" tall.

[bloke]

another reason I really like this tuba:



LOL...
though I've lately been spending quite a bit of time with another B-flat tuba - the case for which measures 48" X 23".

[bort2.0]

Do you think a new King 2341 -- in the best possible repair and alignment, etc -- could be a good approximation/substitute of the Holton?

Always on the lookout/curious about the most GO for the least DOUGH. I dislike how oninky some 4/4 tuba low registers can get, as opposed to just "open" and "unrestricted." That's not to say 6/4 sized or enormous, or anything... But some medium sized tubas get this weird choked low/loud sound that just drives me nuts. The PT-606 that I had was very much like that, although I didn't play it in any HUGE spaces, I did played enough in spaces that were large enough for me to have gotten the point.

Which was a bummer because I liked the size of that tuba, it was ergonomically pleasant, and up until MF or so, had a nice sound.

That said, for a 4/4 CC that doesn't quit, the Nirschl 4/4 has always been a favorite of mine.

Sorry, I'm non-sequitir as hell this morning...!

[bloke]

The Holton is virtually identical to the 4/4 York tubas of the past - as far as the body and bell are concerned (with some suspecting that York may have made them for both factories - as the models are so very similar, in these regards), and the King is just a bit bland - in comparison - in the resonance department.

I wonder and suspect that some (and I do emphasize the word “some”, because people tend to skip over important adjectives and adverbs in others communications) of those issues about which you complain - and points that you raise - are due to the fact that the expanding bugle on all of those instruments that you mentioned is 2 feet shorter?

There have been enough new style King tubas here for repair and sale (since the Holton was assembled) that I feel very confident that I prefer the Holton with its subtly smaller expanding bugle and 19 inch bell. I regularly offer nice-condition Kings (equipped with good MTS cases) for sub-$5000 prices, and I’m not sure if twice that amount would coax the Holton out of my hands - and it’s not just because I assembled it… You’ve seen me sell off things that I’ve assembled, before. Mrs. bloke is actually far more sentimental about instruments that I have assembled than am I. In the same way that I am not interested in the least in an instrument provenance, neither am I interested in an instrument’s provenance when I have been the owner (or assembler) myself. Rather, I am only interested in how useful an instrument is to me - vs. someone’s monetary expression of how valued it is to them.

[Doc]

Do you think a new King 2341 -- in the best possible repair and alignment, etc -- could be a good approximation/substitute of the Holton?

Always on the lookout/curious about the most GO for the least DOUGH. I dislike how oninky some 4/4 tuba low registers can get, as opposed to just "open" and "unrestricted." That's not to say 6/4 sized or enormous, or anything... But some medium sized tubas get this weird choked low/loud sound that just drives me nuts. The PT-606 that I had was very much like that, although I didn't play it in any HUGE spaces, I did played enough in spaces that were large enough for me to have gotten the point.

Which was a bummer because I liked the size of that tuba, it was ergonomically pleasant, and up until MF or so, had a nice sound.

That said, for a 4/4 CC that doesn't quit, the Nirschl 4/4 has always been a favorite of mine.

Sorry, I'm non-sequitir as hell this morning...!

You didn't ask me, but since I have played the new 2341 and Joe's Holton, here it is anyway...

I concur with Joe that the Holton is quite special and unique. The 2341 is a GOOD tuba that is easy to play, easy to hold, great response, no stuffiness, no quirks, good low range, solid sound, and super intonation. I don't know that the Holton and the King are exact comparisons, but if you couldn't own Joe's Holton, the King would likely do very nicely. To be sure, the Holton does have some extra mojo in its sound, but the King certainly sounds nice. And it can do just about anything. Just ask @edfirth (who makes his sound fantastic).

Better yet, drive down to blokeplace and try the new King he has in the shop and his Holton at the same time. You might even get to go home with the King if it's ready for sale.

[bort2.0]

Thanks, Bill!

I'd like to check out @MN_TimTuba's Stofer-modified 2341 sometime. That's supposed to be a really really nice tuba.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Rudy and it's easy to play. But it does make me think a lot about efficiency, in terms of physical size vs output vs effort. The Rudy is about as much fun to haul around as the Willson was. Once you're there, it's no problem. But getting around...

[bloke]

A 4/4 York-"like/size" tuba is just enough smaller than (new-style) King to function really well as a brass quintet B-flat tuba...better than a King, in that regard...more clarity/definition and - when needed - "front".

A new-style King - arguably - is just enough larger than a 4/4 York-"like/size" to serve slightly more effectively in a wind-band tuba.

These size differences are subtle, though, as to be NEARLY OF NO CONSEQUENCE...but that's PRECISELY what we discuss here, isn't it:

"that which is of no consequence"

If using either in a paid or quite good community orchestra, a player should be prepared to be conscientious regarding pulling the upper #4 slide for all of the B-naturals they will encounter, OR devise something - in the way of a particular length of 5th valve circuit - that I did on my Holton (defacto: same size-and-type-of-resonance as a 4/4 York) B-flat.
===================
With a "long whole step" 5th circuit (specifically) with a B-flat tuba, the "low E-flat" (encountered, but fairly seldom) is push-button ready, YET the far-more-often-encountered B-natural above that "low E-flat" USUALLY - unless a tuba features a to-the-good quirk - asks for REMOVING the left hand from the #1 slide, reaching over to the #4 slide, and pulling that one out (for good 2-4 B-natural intonation, as - nearly always - 5-2-3 is too flat for B-natural).
I choose an adjusted semitone as MORE B-naturals (and low E-naturals, for that matter) are encountered than low E-flats, so my decision resulted in BOTH the B AND low E being push-button ready, with low E-flat requiring a pull of the #4 slide for it's 5-2-4 valve combination.

IN CONTRAST, a C tuba VERY STRONGLY ASKS for it's 5th slide to be an adjusted WHOLE tone, as "low F" is even more commonly written/played than ANY of the previously-mentioned pitches, and - thus - a push-button low-F is a VERY strongly-desired feature.