Rudy 3/4 CC in orchestra examples

[bort2.0]

Can anyone point me to some recording examples of a Rudy 3/4 CC being played in an orchestra?

I believe that Pat Landolfini(sp?) Played one as his primary instrument in the NJSO, but I'm not aware of any other examples. I'm sure there are some, I just don't know them.

I haven't found too many examples of this model on YouTube. I believe that hey Rudy 3/4 CC was used on several of the burning River brass cds, and I listened to some of those. I just want to hear what it sounds like in an orchestra setting.

[bloke]

Those things sound sorta like a "throaty" 186, not dissimilar to a (discontinued model) Meinl-Weston model 20 B-flat.

bloke "yeah, I know: 'Words about sounds' mean nothing".

[matt g]

Can anyone point me to some recording examples of a Rudy 3/4 CC being played in an orchestra?

I believe that Pat Landolfini(sp?) Played one as his primary instrument in the NJSO, but I'm not aware of any other examples. I'm sure there are some, I just don't know them.

I haven't found too many examples of this model on YouTube. I believe that hey Rudy 3/4 CC was used on several of the burning River brass cds, and I listened to some of those. I just want to hear what it sounds like in an orchestra setting.

Dunno if Mike Roylance has any floating out there in the ether, but a Rudy 3/4 CC was his main (non-contra) axe for quite a while. He sounded awesome on his. I sat next to him for a semester playing bass trombone while he filled in for Chris Olka when Chris had some scheduling conflicts.

[sdloveless]

Not to hijack your thread (which is, essentially, what I'm doing), but I'd be interested in any recordings of any 3/4 contrabass tubas in an orchestra.

[bloke]

Not to hijack your thread (which is, essentially, what I'm doing), but I'd be interested in any recordings of any 3/4 contrabass tubas in an orchestra.

That would be an interesting challenge to fulfill. Are there any accessible recordings of Mr. Bobo with an actual 3/4 contrabass instrument playing with an orchestra in Europe? I believe I’ve listened to video/audio recordings of him playing what looked to be a 186 in an American orchestra, and I believe I may have heard a recording of The Planets - where i’ve been told that he was using a scantly larger than 4/4 instrument.

(Nearly everyone agrees that a Rudolf Meinl 3/4 is what everyone else considers to be a 4/4.)

random spoiler/political comment:
Vintage 184 instruments are a bit challenging to keep out the ditches, but no one ever seems to bring this up (only singing their worshipful praises). At the time they were being produced, there weren’t a whole lot of things that did much better - particularly not pitched in C. (I owned two - one after the other, and played them for several years.)

[matt g]

Having access to a 3/4 Rudy BBb the same time I owned a 186 BBb, they were really close in size.

I’d think that a recording of someone playing the “old school” 186 CC would be nearly the same as the Rudy.

Referencing my post above, the 2145 (what Chris Olka owned at the time) is really close in size to both of these as well…

[Casca Grossa]

A 3/4 Rudy was my only horn for several years. It is definitely not a 3/4 instrument. More the size of a 186. I played it in an Air Force band with one other player in the section who used an HB2P. It worked fine in that group. I was living in the San Francisco bay area at the time. There was a year when SF Conservatory had no tuba students. I filled in with their orchestra a few times that year. It held up well in that group.

[bort2.0]

Having access to a 3/4 Rudy BBb the same time I owned a 186 BBb, they were really close in size.

I’d think that a recording of someone playing the “old school” 186 CC would be nearly the same as the Rudy.

Referencing my post above, the 2145 (what Chris Olka owned at the time) is really close in size to both of these as well…

Thanks! In my limited experience, I've usually found the Rudy 3/4 to allow for a more pushing and more output than the 186. I haven't played a 186 in orchestra, but in bands, I feel like it doesn't quite give me all that I want before it maxes out. Or, rather, that I'm pushing it too hard, too often. The Rudy seemed more "thick" to me. Still has a limit unlike the enormous .8xx bore Alex or Rudy 5/4... but a higher limit than the 186. Maybe that's just me.

I don't mind some of that pushing instead of holding back conceptually, as that's how I've typically lived my tuba life. But playing something medium sized that projects like mad... Well, that's just a different experience, and a very positive one.

FWIW, I stumbled on some old recordings of me playing my Marzan in both band and orchestra. The ergonomics on my goofball Marzan tuba were lousy and it was really heavy. And I always thought it sounded a little bright, and for as large as it was, it didn't sound as big as it felt.

Whoever did the recording did an absolute Shirt job. Seemed like they used a 1995 camcorder. But, the mic still picked up some very good tuba sounds -- the brightness came through as projection, and it sounded every bit as big as I would have wanted. I had to sell that tuba because of the ergonomics... But was interesting to remind myself how nice it sounded out where it counts.

Or for that matter, I've never sounded better, more comfortable, or more natural than I did on my Miraphone 1291. Same deal, I thought I sounded too dark and dull. Zero issues out front, and quite the opposite, a lot of nice compliments. I never went back to the 1291, something about it seems a little "boring" for lack of a better word.

Is it better to be boring and successful, or exciting and still working on it?

[Oedipoes]

FWIW, I stumbled on some old recordings of me playing my Marzan in both band and orchestra. The ergonomics on my goofball Marzan tuba were lousy and it was really heavy. And I always thought it sounded a little bright, and for as large as it was, it didn't sound as big as it felt.

I am pretty sure that you sound WAY better on your Rudy 5/4 BBb LIVE in the hall than any recording could let you believe...
It is as much feeling as it is hearing, that's how I look at it.

Example:
Mnozil Brass sounds great on a recording.
But that is nothing compared to the massive wall of sound that hits your stomach live, especially from the tuba!

[hrender]

The way a tuba sounds "out there" is almost never the same as how it sounds "right here" and the issues with recording compound the problem. I draw the analogy to the way one's own voice sounds on a recording. I've played concerts where I hated the way I sounded, but upon hearing the playback it was actually pretty good. The reverse has also been true.

[bort2.0]

FWIW, I stumbled on some old recordings of me playing my Marzan in both band and orchestra. The ergonomics on my goofball Marzan tuba were lousy and it was really heavy. And I always thought it sounded a little bright, and for as large as it was, it didn't sound as big as it felt.

I am pretty sure that you sound WAY better on your Rudy 5/4 BBb LIVE in the hall than any recording could let you believe...
It is as much feeling as it is hearing, that's how I look at it.

Example:
Mnozil Brass sounds great on a recording.
But that is nothing compared to the massive wall of sound that hits your stomach live, especially from the tuba!

I saw Mnozil live only once, at a small venue in NYC. Loud doesn't begin to describe it, and "massive wall of sound" is actually pretty accurate!

[hrender]

Not to hijack your thread (which is, essentially, what I'm doing), but I'd be interested in any recordings of any 3/4 contrabass tubas in an orchestra.

That would be an interesting challenge to fulfill. Are there any accessible recordings of Mr. Bobo with an actual 3/4 contrabass instrument playing with an orchestra in Europe? I believe I’ve listened to video/audio recordings of him playing what looked to be a 186 in an American orchestra, and I believe I may have heard a recording of The Planets - where i’ve been told that he was using a scantly larger than 4/4 instrument.

[bloke]

Yeah… I’ve been told that was recorded with a 188. Was I told correctly?

[hrender]

That I don't know. I had been looking for some video of older recordings with the RCO but didn't find anything conclusive. Below is a pic of him with the RCO from 1962 via his website that's a tell, but that may be an F.

[bloke]

I'd bet $20 (since $20 ain't worth nuthin' no more) that's his old 184 C instrument.

One of the old MiraFone brochures sports a picture of him as a young man (with a nice greased combo ivy-league/comb-over hair style) holding that instrument.

[hrender]

This is the closest I've come to clips from that period. They never seem to show the tuba player, even fleetingly.

[bloke]

Those old videos are pretty rare, and thanks for sharing that.
Dragging big noisy film, video tape or TV cameras into concert halls (particularly for live audience concerts) wasn’t particularly common, back then.
Since the clip is so short, I wonder if they were only allowed to film during the loud part?

[dp]

...

[bloke]

… so a really resonant/clear sound with a conservative sized mouthpiece on a conservative sized instrument - playing music, and not just notes - is labeled “west coast”…

I remember – decades ago – when younger American tuba players/students puffed their chests up and claimed that were various “schools“ of tuba playing. Mostly, students did this aligning with various teachers - championing and defending their own teachers, obviously… and when - in reality - all of those teachers were great friends of each other, and surely were all telling their students to do all the same things.
I only know of two schools of tuba playing: good, and bad.

[arpthark]

Did the "West Coast Sound" actually originate in Amsterdam?

West coast of the Markemeer?