Ophicleide

[Mary Ann]

I just watched a youtube about this instrument and had no idea how it worked; I had "assumed" based on its appearance that it worked like a woodwind, in which the valves closed (not opened) and lengthened the tube, rather than the opposite. To find out it operates on pedals was fascinating. Now of course I want one, but of course won't get one, having no use for it. Would be great fun to get to mess with one for an hour though.

[hrender]

There are some great performance videos with ophicleide up on YT. I have no time to learn a new instrument, but I very much enjoy hearing it played well.

[bloke]

The do function just as woodwinds (specifically: recorders/flutes/saxophones/oboes/etc.) whereby the fundamental and first overtone (mostly) are mostly utilized, and (occasionally - above the bass clef staff) higher overtones are utilized.

Putting down odd fingerings (leaving something open partway up) is done to favor good intonation - just as with the woodwind instruments listed above...although the pitch is quite flexible (even more so than with typical tubas).

common spelling: ophicleide

Sometime, ask someone if they would trust you momentarily with their (probably not a French-made or Japan-made, but Chinese or USA-made) baritone saxophone. Insert your baritone horn mouthpiece into it, and mess around (with your oboe/English horn/flute/recorder fingering patterns). This will offer you more insight.

[Mary Ann]

I didn't mean "different physics than woodwinds." I meant it would not be "intuitive" if you were a woodwind player. With all my fingers down on an oboe, I get the lowest note. With all my fingers down on this thing, it looks like I'd have the highest harmonic series. Obviously I'd have to get my hands on one to figure it out.

[iiipopes]

There are fingering charts online. The two most common keys are BBb and CC (Berlioz' original scores called for one and sometimes more, or alternatively oph & serpent, or later oph and tuba, before re-writing all the parts for tuba), although there are also others. Doug Yeo has some great ensemble videos on YouTube that you can see and hear what you can actually achieve tonally. At one point some years ago, when my community band was flush with tubas and the full complement of low brass, but light on woodwinds, I thought about getting one and adapting a straight mute into the bell to play bassoon parts. But the next year when we didn't have that many brass players - nah. Wessex sells at least three different models (BBb, CC, Eb "alto"), along with a book. Links:
https://us.wessex-tubas.com/collections ... -saxophone
http://www.hberlioz.com/Scores/BerliozTreatise.html
https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67 ... tation.pdf

[bloke]

Composers traveled around with their scores/parts and (just as do Broadway shows) picked up local musicians/orchestras to perform their new works for local audiences.

I believe Berlioz was more interested in having those parts covered by SOMETHING (preferably "a couple of instruments into which a lips-buzzing mouthpiece are inserted") rather than by NOTHING.
I tend to believe that we can easily become bit too academic in our best-guesses at historic practices/events, and need to more embrace more of the real and the practical. ex: Most everywhere where there were people everything smelled like B.O., piss, and sh!t.

...the same with Verdi, and his mystical/mythical "cimbasso", etc., etc., etc...et al, ad infinitum...

[iiipopes]

Composers traveled around with their scores/parts and (just as do Broadway shows) picked up local musicians/orchestras to perform their new works for local audiences.

I believe Berlioz was more interested in having those parts covered by SOMETHING (preferably "a couple of instruments into which a lips-buzzing mouthpiece are inserted") rather than by NOTHING.
I tend to believe that we can easily become bit too academic in our best-guesses at historic practices/events, and need to more embrace more of the real and the practical. ex: Most everywhere where there were people everything smelled like B.O., piss, and sh!t.

...the same with Verdi, and his mystical/mythical "cimbasso", etc., etc., etc...et al, ad infinitum...

Hmmm. Academic we may be, but this is Berlioz' own quote about why he scored the oph & serpent, as set forth on pages 46-7 of Morgan's dissertation linked above:

"In fact, Berlioz’s own description of the ophicleide vindicates his use of the instrument for expressive purposes:

The sound of [its] low tones is rough; . . . Nothing is more clumsy—I could
almost say, more monstrous—nothing less appropriate in combination with the
rest of the orchestra than those more or less rapid passages played as solos in
the medium range of the ophicleide in certain modern operas. They are like an
escaped bull jumping around in a drawing-room."

So Berlioz' use of the oph in movements 4 and 5 of Symphonie Fantastique was definitely for color, not just for the bass line - that was for the double basses.

Reference: Hector Berlioz and Richard Strauss, Treatise on Instrumentation, translated by Theodore Front (New
York: Dover Publications, 1991, and unabridged republication of the edition originally published
by Edwin F. Kalmus, New York, 1948), 337.

I would surmise that a modern reasonable performance to get the effect of the nightmares, if the services of an oph player are not available, would be to use an aluminum muted euph with a shallow cup mouthpiece. Or maybe a sarrusophone; or even better, a sudrophone.

[jtm]

"The sound of [its] low tones is rough; . . . Nothing is more clumsy—I could
almost say, more monstrous—nothing less appropriate in combination with the
rest of the orchestra ..."

Sounds like me with an F tuba.

I, too, have wanted an ophicleide since I first read about them in high school, decades ago. I've no idea how well the new Chinese ones hold up, but it's nice to know they exist.

[Finetales]

I've played a couple. They're weird.

Here are two videos of ophicleide in a non-classical context.

Duet with a euphonium in C!


This one especially demonstrates very clearly how different slurs sound on ophicleide than anything that came after it.

[matt g]

This was refreshing to hear all around with the brass being voiced with period instruments with fine players.

[bloke]

When an instrument is so long that it doubles over on itself (such as a bassoon or ophicleide), of course the fingering patterns will involve some contrary motion, but the more (all of the) holes are closed towards the bottom of the instrument, the longer the instrument, and the lower (on a given overtone/partial) will be the pitch.

[arpthark]

The ophicleide, like mortal sin,
Was fostered by the serpent.
Its pitch was vague, its tone was dim,
Its timbre, rude and burpant.

Composers, in a secret vote,
Declared its sound non grata.
That’s why Hindemith never wrote
An ophicleide sonata.

Thus spurned, it soon became defunct,
To gross neglect succumbing.
Some were pawned, but most were junked,
Or used for indoor plumbing.

And so this ill wind, badly blown,
Has now completely vanished.
I nominate the saxophone
To be the one next banished.

Farewell, offensive ophicleide,
Your epitaph is chiseled:
"I died of ophicleidicide.
I tried, alas, but fizzled!"

- with apologies to Brian Holmes

[bloke]

For humor to be funny, it needs to be based in truth.
Musicologists demonstrating these instruments has created a new truth, but the real truth is that there are and were artists that can and could play these instruments beautifully.

[Mary Ann]

If I understood the video I saw, pushing buttons down OPENS holes, rather than closing them, which would be counter-intuitive to a woodwind. (bloke and I are talking past each other again.)

Scott said there are fingering charts online --- but when I teach about brass (rarely) I teach the concept of what the valves DO, as opposed to "these buttons down for that dot on the page," which is how winds are taught in the school system, and why brass bands all read treble clef transpositions.

So I teach a) the overtone series based on a fundamental, and b) what the valves to do the fundamental pitch length of the tube. From that, they can figure out any set of fingerings for any brass instrument without having to look anything up. (Horn players have to understand this because of the transpositions in "older" music; before valves, you put in a different crook and "read" based on the note's position in the harmonic series.)

I would have a lot more fun myself by figuring out what tube length is associated with opening various combos (?) of valves (some are probably weird overtones if I'm guessing right) and figuring out the fingerings from there. THEN check with the fingering charts online to see how close I got. Personally, I have to understand what is happening; on a piano, it is patently obvious. On strings, same; woodwinds, pretty much; brass -- it really helps to know why you're pushing the buttons you are. I may go look at a fingering chart just to see if I can figure out from looking at it, what is going on with the harmonic series to get the note the fingering is for.

[bloke]

Higher pitches are mostly are set up on woodwinds with closed holes that need to be opened, and lower pitches on woodwinds are mostly set up with open holes that need to be closed. There are only so many fingers, and not enough for every hole… thus these types of systems.

[arpthark]

Laabs sells one for less than $1.5k.

https://www.jimlaabsmusicstore.com/stor ... -key-of-c/

Laabs has a pretty notoriously sketchy return policy, so even if I was okay with the price, for something as unknown as a Chinese C ophicleide that might be a deal breaker.

There was one for sale at BBC for under a grand a few years ago.

If, like James Brown, you are having fun and got money to burn...

[bloke]

Back when money was worth something and these things were not made in China, I spotted a Gautrout (i’m not spelling it correctly… It’s the original name of the company that became Cousnon - also misspelled, because my brain just can’t remember these spellings this morning) on eBay for about that price.
A friend bought it who had been wanting one, I fixed it up, they learned to play it, and then asked me to add another half step tone hole and key at the top end - to simplify their fingering patterns.
I don’t know if they mess with that much anymore…??
(If I had that much time on my hands, I believe I would use it to master and maintain trombone playing slide technique.)

[TheBerlinerTuba]

For those who are looking for a good used ie: more than 120 years old, or a new french made version, please get in touch with my colleague in France,
Jérôme Wiss. His tuba and euphonium mouthpieces are also highly recommended.

http://jeromewiss.com/en/fabrication-en/ophicleide-bb/

[donn]

If I understood the video I saw, pushing buttons down OPENS holes, rather than closing them, which would be counter-intuitive to a woodwind.

There is a vaguely similar woodwind, though, that I believe is operated in that fashion, the reed contrabass.

[acemorgan]

Farewell, offensive ophicleide,
Your epitaph is chiseled:
"I died of ophicleidicide.
I tried, alas, but fizzled!"

This gets even better when you consider that the word "fizzled" originated as Medieval slang relating to flatulence.