Musings On Learning E♭ Tuba

[LargeTuba]

The Yamaha YEB-321 is not a 3/4 sized horn, it can produce a lot of sound. The cash register is beefy.

Last year I had a concert with symphony fantastique and festival overture and I played it all on the Yamaha. It worked great!

[2nd tenor]

Duplicate.

[2nd tenor]

This guy has a four valve non-comp Eb and has used it for several of his videos:




I’d settle for playing that well and for what he can play …

[eeferman]

I liked the 3+1 configuration on my Besson 981 (with the big bell) but was always unhappy with the moderate stuffiness. I switched to the Besson 983 (front-action) which has a much more open wrap, so no stuffiness.

[humBell]

Wonder if a contributing factor to 3+1 stuffiness is that it is harder to evict accumulated condensation...

I am leaning heavy into my Eb phase i am going through and love sound of the "leviathion". And 3+1 keeps your BBb fingerings in mind.

But finding a mouthpiece what works both for you and your instrument seems to be key.

[Doc]

Wonder if a contributing factor to 3+1 stuffiness is that it is harder to evict accumulated condensation...

I am leaning heavy into my Eb phase i am going through and love sound of the "leviathion". And 3+1 keeps your BBb fingerings in mind.

But finding a mouthpiece what works both for you and your instrument seems to be key.

Leviathan? Do tell!

[humBell]

Leviathon is what 3+1 comp Eb Besson says it is on the bell.

And it knows these things better than i do. It is of the variety where the compensated valve circuit takes a decadently circuitous route back to the valveset such that it can double as a handle.

It does suffer occasionally from the lower pitch compensated notes not being as lively as those without using the 4th valve. Enough of that cleared up when i dumped the back slide, that i should probably work out the spin and valve combinations that clear condensation out, and if i do, should refine it to a performance art.

But yeah, it really is a fun tuba to play, and being a comp, keeps the BBb fingerings in mind even when playing an Eb instrument.

[humBell]

And you are absolutely right in the spelling.

Sorry, Leviathan.

[Grumpikins]

I am also very interested in learning/ purchasing an eb horn, so this thread is very helpful. I have never played an eb or f horn. I did play a euph when i was i school and i just plain didnt care for it. Sorry, im not knocking euph or players. It just didnt agree with me. As for the post about top action horns, i played them when i was in school and they also were not comfortable for me. But im not opposed to trying them out again. My goal is to find a smaller horn to use with playing in and above the bc staff. On my cc and bb horns i struggle up there. Also, i have been playing with a guy who has/plays several 6/4 horns and i feel that playing a eb horn with him would fill our sound nicely. Maybe im nuts, maybe this is just a pipe dream. Life loves curve balls. Happy holidays everybody.

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[Doc]

I am also very interested in learning/ purchasing an eb horn, so this thread is very helpful. I have never played an eb or f horn. I did play a euph when i was i school and i just plain didnt care for it. Sorry, im not knocking euph or players. It just didnt agree with me. As for the post about top action horns, i played them when i was in school and they also were not comfortable for me. But im not opposed to trying them out again. My goal is to find a smaller horn to use with playing in and above the bc staff. On my cc and bb horns i struggle up there. Also, i have been playing with a guy who has/plays several 6/4 horns and i feel that playing a eb horn with him would fill our sound nicely. Maybe im nuts, maybe this is just a pipe dream. Life loves curve balls. Happy holidays everybody.

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You aren’t nuts, and it isn’t a pipe dream. I stupidly put off getting an Eb for many years, but now I own three. An Eb would definitely balance a 6/4 tuba, and it will handle things above the staff. And you might find (as many of us do) that a good Eb is likely the best all around tuba - it does everything pretty darned well.

Talk to “doc” (Bill Holt) about what he purchased.
Also: if you happen to be short-waisted, the same company makes it considerably less expensive model than the one he purchased with one of those straight-around-the-bell mouthpipes.

I started with a Wessex Eb helicon. Then I bought a John Packer JP377, and I love it. It plays wonderfully. Easy and in tune. I recently acquired a Boosey & Hawkes Imperial (15” bell), and it is a fun tuba for sure.

[Wally]

Funny thing, as a life-long BBb player who recently acquired and began to play seriously an EEb (YEB 321S), I find that my upper range does not necessarily increase, but tone is better and I don't tire as fast. I found the same thing years ago in college when I briefly borrowed an EEb to try and play "Bydlo"

[Mary Ann]

This guy has a four valve non-comp Eb and has used it for several of his videos:

(youtubes not included )

I’d settle for playing that well and for what he can play …

The lowest note I heard in either of these was C below the staff. Not even into compensating / 4th valve territory. in the duet, he was playing the higher part, and the guy on the rotary contrabass was playing the lower part. Just so you understand these are playable in the contra register but are not contras.

[JRaymo]

IMHO, with Eb tubas, 3+1 Eb is where it's at. There are others that are fine, but give 3+1 a shot.

If you can deal with a 3+1 euphonium, you can certainly deal with a 3+1 Eb tuba.

THIS ↑

The top-action (and bell-front, for that matter) haters might (??) benefit from considering "getting over it", learning how to comfortably hold-and-play a top-action (different posture completely from front-action), opening themselves up to more options (not necessarily buying/owning top-action, but allowing that as an OPTION), and also realizing that - (perhaps with at least one of their instruments) a "recording bell" (whether "only" or "one of two bells") can offer some pronounced acoustical benefits at certain types of venues. Further/finally, neither top-action nor "recording bell" are "amateur", but are viable options for either amateurs, professionals, or people who both play for free and for remuneration.

clarification:
There are crappy/wonderful front-action tubas and crappy/wonderful top-action tubas.
More crappy front-action tubas are sold (to individuals) than crappy top-action tubas, due
to the incredible individual-consumer bias towards front-action tubas.
examples of expensive/crappy front-action tubas (too many to list, and NO WAY
am I jumping into that politically-charged rabbit hole.)

3+1 compensating E-flat tubas in particular:
I just have not encountered any front-action ones (in any price range) which play as well (nor as well in tune) as the best of the 3+1 comp's. "cjk" - in particular - owns an early Yamaha (YEB-631) which is - hands-down - superior to those Yamaha is currently producing...but there are other amazing 3+1 comp-E-flat tubas as well.
going off on a wild tangent:
It's very difficult to locate, these days, a SMALL BELL (15") 3+1 compensating E-flat tuba (as almost all made today feature 19" bells - with a few offering 17" bells), but the Yamaha YEB-321 bell (which repair shops and dealers can purchase from Yamaha) is virtually identical to the vintage Besson/B&H 15" bell, and can be purchased and installed (ie. "swapped out", if a smaller bell is desired) on several makes of the standard-sized 3+1 E-flat compensating tubas.

I still kick myself for not finding the money to buy that little 3+1 Willson you had for sale years ago. Looked like a sweet playing little tuba.


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[2nd tenor]

This guy has a four valve non-comp Eb and has used it for several of his videos:

(youtubes not included )

I’d settle for playing that well and for what he can play …

The lowest note I heard in either of these was C below the staff. Not even into compensating / 4th valve territory. in the duet, he was playing the higher part, and the guy on the rotary contrabass was playing the lower part. Just so you understand these are playable in the contra register but are not contras.

Fair points. I’ve seen other videos of this guy playing in which he used the fourth plus additional valves, it’s rare that he goes real low and mostly I’m interested in the bass voice music that he produces and the skill that he demonstrates.

I play a four valve compensating Eb tuba. The compensation does keep it more in tune but it also makes it less free blowing, compensating tubing also makes it heavier and more expensive . I’d settle for occasionally a fraction sharp, easy blowing and some loss of range that I don’t really use; others might have different criteria.

[YorkNumber3.0]

.

[JRaymo]

This guy has a four valve non-comp Eb and has used it for several of his videos:

(youtubes not included )

I’d settle for playing that well and for what he can play …

The lowest note I heard in either of these was C below the staff. Not even into compensating / 4th valve territory. in the duet, he was playing the higher part, and the guy on the rotary contrabass was playing the lower part. Just so you understand these are playable in the contra register but are not contras.

Fair points. I’ve seen other videos of this guy playing in which he used the fourth plus additional valves, it’s rare that he goes real low and mostly I’m interested in the bass voice music that he produces and the skill that he demonstrates.

I play a four valve compensating Eb tuba. The compensation does keep it more in tune but it also makes it less free blowing, compensating tubing also makes it heavier and more expensive [emoji3525]. I’d settle for occasionally a fraction sharp, easy blowing and some loss of range that I don’t really use; others might have different criteria.

I would say if the goal were to have one instrument and try to do everything on it if that instrument would also be in the Key of Eb I would recommend the larger Willson 3400. 5 valves and non compensated. I don’t think the compensated tubas can compete strictly talking low register playing with volume. The 3+1 tubas would be equal or better in every other area.


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[2nd tenor]

H’mm, if one wanted a do everything Tuba then the four compensating valve Tubas seem to be popular in UK Professional Orchestras. As a personal view I’m beginning to think that seeking one Tuba to do everything isn’t going to end with complete satisfaction, some compromise is inevitable and to avoid that one needs to get a second instrument.

The Tuba that’s given me most smiles is a small three valve Eb non-comp. It’s light, it’s easy to fill, it wasn’t expensive and the range is adequate for most things. Coupled with a similar BBb I’d have pretty much most things covered, for what I do though I think that the nimbler Eb would likely get the greater use.

Would I still like the (yeb-321) simple four valve Yamaha Eb? Cost aside I think so, without too much of a downside the fourth valve usefully adds a little to the low range envelope … I think that the three valve version (yeb-201) could work very well for me and other folk too though.

[JRaymo]

I completely agree with you. I never intended to only use Eb tuba for everything and my Willson was purchased as a bass tuba for when I was not using a 5/4 cc. I’ve played next to one of the top brass band tubists on Eb and he played circles around me with his 3+1 Besson. I was only speaking to a average person here in the us who is used to front action and felt the compensating horns were stuffy.

I downsized to Eb because I started a family and music took a backseat to all that so I just kept the tuba I thought I would play the most. My CC at the time was great but it was really a large ensemble instrument only.


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[KerryAbear]

Update:

I have finally purchased an E♭ tuba.
http://alturl.com/vv8ea

I really wanted a 4 valve Yamaha or Besson. I’ll just have to cope with three valves and upgrade in the future when I have the funds.
I thought this was a good deal though and it comes with a hard case.

[Dents Be Gone!]

I agree, guys. This is the way to go.