Diminished demand for small ensembles?

[Grumpikins]

Even before I returned to playing my tuba, I noticed a lack of demand or opportunities (gigs) for small groups, particularly brass. Is this happening everywhere? Or is it more isolated to the small city where i live?

20+ years ago, when i was in high school, i had a mild flow of calls to play gigs. The usual stuff, a wedding once in a while, numerous christmas background music gigs for snobbish parties, an occasional dixie band, musicals, even a pit orchestra for a ballet a couple times. None of these things occur anymore. I had been thinking about this lately, and im not alone. While at a community band rehearsal recently, a trombonist whom played some of the above gigs with me turned to me and started talking about this. It was " hey, remember when we..... how come we dont do that anymore?..."

In addition, i started looking around a little bit at the bar scene. The rock bands and even djs are struggling to get gigs.

The kid movie "wall ie" comes to mind....

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[bloke]

Forty years ago, Sunday afternoon jazz band gigs (6 or 7 pc.) paid about $80 (weekly).

Today, they're (4 pc.) $65 (monthly). Today's $65 is the inflation-adjusted equivalent of $22 bucks - forty years ago.

I had a nice weekly cruise line lounge boarding gig (c. 3 years - c. 35 Saturdays/yr - ten to noon) that paid c. $150...
The you-know-what panic broomed that gig.

If there is someone looking for a combo, "not sucking" (perhaps even "playing brilliantly", PLUS actually ENTERTAINING their customers - clever-yet-minimal banter, etc.) increases the chances of being hired to play a little bit.

Churches still pay.
Per-service and salaried orchestras pay, but I doubt that very many will be around ten years from now.

REALLY remarkably fine musicians work..."some", and (probably) more than are believe themselves to be in that category.

I'm not "The Eddie Van Halen of the Tuba", but (thankfully) I'm working nearly every day between Dec 1st - 15th (all sorts of gigs / all sorts of venues). I'm working Christmas Eve until c. 20 minutes into Christmas day...no NYE gig (haven't had one of those in years...always hated them).

Younger people aren't into what we do.
Older people are dead.

[Three Valves]

Younger people aren't into what we do.
Older people are dead.

...background music gigs for snobbish parties,

Snobs got tired of the name calling....

[bloke]

Snobs got tired of the name calling....

When I was a teenager (passing for a bit older), I played "background music" at cocktail parties.
Those people would drink hard liquor in water, cola, 7-Up, orange juice or something.
Most of them had two to four of those things between 7 and 9 P.M., thanked the hosts, and went home.

Today, people drink straight whiskey or mix straight whiskey, cannabis, and other crap, and don't stop until they pass out...

...It's pretty hard for anyone to behave "snobbishly" when they are that f-ed up.

BACKGROUND MUSIC:
and every tune under the sun (played by any instrument imaginable, and for as long as needed) can be located and played for free from anyone's phone on the you-thing.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=tw ... il%20music

[Mary Ann]

well, I am playing stuff but it's for free. Salvation army six piece brass group a week ago, upcoming quintet free gig at a church on Dec 9th, and SA again on Christmas day. All of them pickup groups needing a tuba and sight reading. If I were still trying to make money at this instead of just have fun, I'd be in the poor house. None of these places would pay anyone, so I don't feel like I'm taking "work" from anyone else, and what I'm hoping for is to get into a decent amateur quintet on tuba, where I would have even MORE fun.
All of these came from having re-joined the brass band, which has a few very fine players in it, one of whom is organizing all these pickup groups. The brass band is a great group for music majors who ended up teaching in the school system.

[Three Valves]

When I was a teenager (passing for a bit older), I played "background music" at cocktail parties.
Those people would drink hard liquor in water, cola, 7-Up, orange juice or something.
Most of them had two to four of those things between 7 and 9 P.M., thanked the hosts, and went home.

I parked their cars.

I appreciated the pocket change.

If I couldn't be one of them, I thought it would be nice to be invited one day instead of being the help.

Well, it finally happened!

Then 'Rona came, "hate rich guy" became a thing, now no more parties.

Not on my level anyway...

[Grumpikins]

So this topic wasnt intended to be specifically about paid gigs. But about small ensemble opportunities in general. I suppose that when i was writing it, i was thinking as a "hobbyist" musician. I just want to play more, for my own and others enjoyment. Being paid for it is just a nice perk. And where i live, opportunities have dried up. The trombone player i mentioned is in a jazz band here and they had to organise thier own concert and live stream it.... is that normal? Mary ann, others, i am very glad to hear that you are busy.

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[Three Valves]

@Grumpikins

Yes. Our pre ‘Rona three “free” gigs are down to one.

I hope i gets better.

[arpthark]

Talk to civic groups leaders, local event organizers, whatever and stump for your ensemble. I am a part of a brass group that just sort of "started" by having a very persistent and organized leader bug the snot out of everyone in the southeastern part of our small state, and we have a healthy slate of gigs lined up. People make stuff happen and being proactive helps.

[MN_TimTuba]

In my rather remote neck of the woods -
Play for free gigs are pretty readily available. Few churches here pay their musicians, and I don't mind at all. I've been part of our Worship Team and Special Music/Offertories for over 35 years, and appreciate having this as a ministry. The congregation appreciates the variety, and I organize most of it. All of the several colleges within 90 miles have concert bands, jazz bands, brass and woodwind choirs, quintets, etc. that welcome the participation of adults who aren't students. There are numerous town and county festivals that welcome anyone who says they can sing or play, Salvation Army at times, and nursing homes that have events every day of the week, mostly non-paid. I'm not wealthy, but I'm not broke, and I do enjoy playing for all of these things.
Paid gigs are pretty tough to find. 25 years ago I played bass in a very good swing/stage band that had around a dozen to 15 gigs a year paying $100-150 per, and I really really enjoyed the music we made. Now virtually all of those gigs have gone to DJ entertainment. The past 2 years our dixieland band has been a fun paying gig, still only $100-150 per but at 5-8 events each year it was a good way to make some fun money. Last year we also had a paying job where we did a long set of jazz standards/easy listening, so I was able to play bass again and sing. My country trio has played a paying gig at a local harvest festival the past 2 years and have been asked to return. I was very pleased to play bass/tuba in the pit for a production of Hello, Dolly in August, and it paid gas money plus a happy per diem that more than paid for my little Yamaha. There are 2 high-powered jazz/rock bands in the area that are in big demand and do some road travel. They are darned good and make good money. I have a good friend who quit his regular job in the business world and performs a one-man show working full time, mainly nursing homes but some community events as well. He started as an Elvis show, now you can also book him for a Sinatra show or a Cowboy show. I guess it's true that with some elbow grease and determination - and a modicum of skill - you can sometimes make a living in performance. More power to him.
Tim

[Jperry1466]

We are a bit remote, too, in a small college town, but during the pandemic managed to put together a small tuba ensemble that has grown to 8 members: 6 tubas and 2 euphoniums. We get quite a few calls to play for "free" around the area, mostly churches, civic clubs, banquets, senior living centers, etc. Most hosts will at least feed us; the churches usually give us money. We have 7 performances scheduled between Thanksgiving and Christmas. Once we play somewhere, our contact info gets spread to other groups. Last spring, we played for a morning church service, then at a brewery that afternoon. Interesting day.

My favorite ensemble is a brass quintet, but it was easier to put together a tuba ensemble, believe it or not.

[2nd tenor]

Here in the UK I’ve no real experience of small groups being a thing that happens much and feel that that’s our loss.

My favourite type of playing is in small groups and, when legally allowed to during the Pandemic, my Band organised for its players to join in with outdoor quintet practice; I really loved those sessions.

Gigs wise I think that the Band (about twenty five of us) is almost turning away jobs, but we’re dead cheap to engage to the point that what we charge wouldn’t - if we gave then - cover members’ travel costs. What little we make goes into Band funds to help cover rehearsal costs, additional sheet music, insurance and instrument costs. Playing to an audience has almost become some sort of privilege; mostly I’ve stopped caring about the effectively zero pay and am just happy to bring a bit of joy to others - well we hope that our playing brings joy.

[Paulver]

Well, here in western PA, the DJ craze that started many years ago, pretty much gave live gigs a punch to the gut! DJs were cheaper and took up less room space, so they really became popular. Gigs for dances, parties, proms, night clubs, bars, special occasions, holiday parties,etc., basically all switched over to the canned music. Before that, I was in a band that could have played five nights a week if we wanted to. Many other bands were in the same position. Any New Year's Eve was a bonanza back then!!

Now, ironically, some DJs are charging what it used to cost for a 5 or 6 piece band. It depends on "location!"

Oddly enough, many churches have scrapped the traditional "organist" and switched over to live players for their weekly church service...... not just for special occasions. Some are well paid..... some do it for free.

[2nd tenor]

Well, here in western PA, the DJ craze that started many years ago, pretty much gave live gigs a punch to the gut! DJs were cheaper and took up less room space, so they really became popular. Gigs for dances, parties, proms, night clubs, bars, special occasions, holiday parties,etc., basically all switched over to the canned music. Before that, I was in a band that could have played five nights a week if we wanted to. Many other bands were in the same position. Any New Year's Eve was a bonanza back then!!

Now, ironically, some DJs are charging what it used to cost for a 5 or 6 piece band. It depends on "location!"

Oddly enough, many churches have scrapped the traditional "organist" and switched over to live players for their weekly church service...... not just for special occasions. Some are well paid..... some do it for free.

My guess, and it is no more than that, is that the folk with the skills needed to play an organ are now rarely still with us. Live music, from whoever is able to play say a guitar or a trumpet, engages a congregation and is the ‘modern’ way - though one that in some lesser form has been with us for some decades. If I were in a congregation then I’d play for free and I’m not sure that I’d feel comfortable with changing anyone for supporting their Sunday Service either; I’ve an open mind about other Church Services like Weddings and Funerals.

Tradesmen, which term might extend to DJ’s, tend to charge what the job can stand (upper limit) and at least enough to cover their time and expenses (lower limit).

[Paulver]

Forgot to mention the CD player for some churches.

As a former church organist, I played for pay AND for free. My home church........ I never charged. Played the early service there for years, and eventually got hired by a few other local churches at the same time..... meaning on the same day.... not the same hour!! Some of them actually moved their service times so I could accommodate them. Most Sundays, I played at two churches, Lutheran and Presbyterian, and sometimes I ended up playing at three...... Baptist! It really got interesting when I'd get an early morning panic call from a minister to sub for their organist at the last minute. Christmas Eve got also really hairy at times.
When I moved across the state for my teaching job after graduating from college, I played for another church.... once again for pay, but in those days, the pay was pathetic....... $50 a month at the small churches.

Most of the weddings I played for were for my friends and relatives........ never charged a cent for those.

As I said earlier......... location is the key. My daughter just turned down a two Sunday gig for a Christmas quintet at a church in Rochester, NY. $800!!!!!! She wanted to be home for Christmas Eve.

[2nd tenor]

Forgot to mention the CD player for some churches.

That’s the way of things and a logical extension to ways of doing things. First we had DJ’s using records rather than live music and now we replace DJ’s by a form of DIY. There are opportunities for (forms of) music provision to be cheaper, simpler and more reliable. CD’s are perhaps now outdated or limiting, but other digital storage forms could be very enabling.

Paid to perform and live music? There’s a place for it but maybe it’s now increasingly niche rather than mainstream. I suspect that there will be some market for presence though, the generation of music by people present at an event changes - let’s say enhances - the event and the importance of costs is variable.

[Breavdah]

Music might just not "hit like it used to". In the 1800s ensemble instrumental music must have been jaw-dropping. Like showing magic tricks to jungle tribesman. In today's age of infinite and immediate and constant entertainment, it's much less likely to grab attention. There are incremental improvements of better compositions, better instruments, spread of improved playing technique, but these haven't treaded water against digital tide.

[bloke]

Nutcracker w/recorded music is the most common, these days...yes?

(second most common being some "hotel orchestra" orchestration)

Why not holographic dancers?

...and all paid for by the National Endowment for the Recordings

[tofu]

.

[bloke]

- ‘ agreed that the 80’s (particularly the first half were the pinnacle. Related to some of us specifically, the 1970s was when universities began hiring dedicated - and even full-time - tuba instructors, and that is now quite a bit on the wane. Often, young people - with very little actual performance experience (yet with a diploma or two on their wall) are being paid a handful of thousand dollars a year at universities to “handle the tuba majors”.
- agreed that (top-down engineered) chaos is a nemesis of the arts. When everyone is having to concentrate on trying to not lose their property and their life, they’re not going to think very much about singing, dancing, painting, carving, acting, or listening to music. Cities are where approximately half of our people are, and they are supposed to be meccas, rather than dysfunctional places to specifically avoid.
- ‘ funny how so many artists are in denial regarding what is occurring to society (society that can only support arts when there is civilization, and how so many in the arts seem to gleefully support anti-civilization narratives and programs. Finally, it has always been those who have more who have supported the arts. The indigent have never been able to support the arts. Encouraging widespread prosperity and liberty – rather than showing contempt for these things - encourages the arts.

Younger people really don’t understand - and can’t understand - what’s happening, because they have no historical reference, and the historical references they have been fed have been heavily fictionalized with false narratives.