Leadpipe angle OR shank bending

[Mary Ann]

So I got a picture, finally, of the "this is what is needed" angle for a tuba leadpipe. (The Eb I bought is not all the way to this angle, but enough adjusted by the previous owner that it doesn't break my neck trying to play it.)

This is a lousy photo but shows the info needed. The local guy who was competent to bend the leadpipe for me, is having trouble with his back and says he can't do any heavy instruments at least for a while and has even stopped playing with some groups. Which means if I want to play this CC, I have to tilt the tuba out from me at such an angle so that this is the incoming leadpipe angle. Either that or tilt my head WAY back to get my chin out there. I don't think either is doable at my age and fitness now, and frankly I can't figure out how I played straight-in leadpipes before; I did once see a picture that shows a very, very awkward neck angle. No can do no more, perhaps spoiled by the Eb's playability, or perhaps only playing because of its ergonomic suitability.

Horns, trumpets, trombones --- they can do any angle they want, and if you look, especially at horns, most are angled down, not straight out, and that is not a "horn embouchure necessity." Most euphs, all tubas, if students have a receding chin (or in my case, a big dent in the chin) that makes it impossible to make full embouchure contact, they are probably told they have no talent for the instrument.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tsjs1dhjigjvu ... D.jpg?dl=0

[bloke]

I'm big, and I like narrow rims on tuba mouthpieces.

Were I little, I suspect that would demand narrow rims on tuba mouthpieces.

I'm not-in-the-least questioning your need for a mouthpipe tube to meet your face at that angle, but (although pictures only begin to tell the story), I'm thinking that I might additionally be seeing that the mouthpiece has got you (somewhat) "boxed in"...

...and please don't misinterpret this as "bloke doesn't get it". I get it: Mouthpieces MUST articulate the face at the optimum angle(s) - "(s)" implying that there's usually a bit of tilt occurring across the range of the instrument.

Are there more pictures (such as of your instrument with you holding it in playing position) - other than the mouthpiece-on-the-face picture?

(I don't much care for logging in to anything-in-particular for any-reason-in-particular.)

[Mary Ann]

So you're saying, basically, that the piece is too big for my face. If I hadn't gone through my box o' pieces I would say ok I'll try some smaller ones, but I did try smaller ones and I don't do as well nor do I sound as good. Both that one (PT 64 on the CC) and the 7B on the Eb, have been settled on because they work better than anything else I have, on those instruments. The PT 64 is barky on the Eb and the 7B is woofy on the CC. Maybe if I had a complete line of totally custom cups and shanks, I'd find something better but -- these work ok IF I can get them on my face without having to simultaneously aim my face at the ceiling and look down at the music stand.

And, BTW I like a sharp inner lip on the rim. I don't care how thick or thin the rim is because my lips aren't touching it anyway; it sits on my face bones and I'm basically free-buzzing in the cup.

My photo-taker is in his fourth week of severe covid after having had ALL available shots. We think he's going to make it but he's in pretty bad shape after also developing pneumonia. When he gets back on his feet I can get you more pictures if you want to delve into all that. I took the above picture myself.

[bloke]

I'm not stating anything at all, but I'm only wondering if you might benefit from having the outside of the mouthpiece shaved down so that the rim is narrower and everything else is the same.

Obviously, if it's a fairly wide rim (??), you decide that you agree with this supposition (??), and that the supposition is indeed the case, the outside wouldn't simply be chopped down, it would be chopped down, rounded off, and then replated.

As far as the mouthpipe angle is concerned, are you able to have someone take a picture of you from both the side and the front playing the instrument, and then maybe a couple more pictures of the way that you would prefer to hold the instrument showing how the mouthpiece misaligns with your head...??

[Mary Ann]

Eventually, yes, I can and will get those pictures, and come back here. It is a few weeks off. I have thought that having the rim made much less wide would make it bump my nose less, but it really only gets uncomfortable when I have to push it up for the range above middle C, which is almost never anything I have to do, so I just let it go. If I didn't have as large a space between upper lip and nose as I do, I probably wouldn't even be able to play tuba. People with short upper lips can't play big cups if they need what Reinhardt calls a high set. A low set, possibly they could.

[Grumpikins]

So, 20 years ago when i was in college with my face on my horn at least 4 hours a day, i developed severe headaches and neck pain. One day i woke up and my entire body was numb. That was really scary. I went to the dr, then to a chiropractor. They took xrays and concluded that i had a previous neck injury. I spent like six months going to the chiropractor and physical therapy twice a week. Fast foreward, i started playing again last spring after about 15 years of not playing. After a couple weeks the pain came back.....(light bulb)! So with a mirror i looked at my posture while playing. The angle of my leadpipe and the shape of my face/jaw/embochure were causing me to squinch and crunch my neck to play my horn.... so over the summer i had the angle adjusted and now there is no pain.... True story... hahaha...

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[iiipopes]

Tailoring. Yes, it's all about tailoring. As guys, we think nothing of having the sleeves, waist, or inseam adjusted to fit on our formal concert wear. It should be the same with our instruments. Tubas by definition are large instruments. If you don't tailor your personal instrument to your posture, physique, ergonomics, etc., you will encounter the difficulties posted above, and of which I also encountered. Just like with a suit tailor, when I purchase an instrument, I make an appointment with my tech so we may adjust the height and angle of the leadpipe and receiver, as well as (for rotary instruments) the entire geometry of the paddles, angles of the tubing, and even the installation of additional water keys in strategic areas that may vary depending on each player's breath support and technique that may result in condensation accumulating in a different crook of the instrument. I have an overbite and I must have this done so there is no stress on my upper lip, and as posted above, to keep everything from skull to sacroiliac in alignment for proper breath support and to prevent physical stress that can cause the symptoms set forth above. And yes, on a prior mouthpiece I used to own, I really liked the tone and intonation, but I had the rim narrowed from what was essentially a 24AW contour to a Wick 1 contour because the rim was so wide it bumped my nose and I couldn't get the proper centering of the mouthpiece for my embouchure.

A player may use different mouthpieces over time. So I advocate the adjustment of the leadpipe and receiver rather than the mouthpiece shank. We spend thousands of dollars on our instruments, mouthpieces, accessories, etc. So to decline to spend a few extra dollars with a qualified tech to make sure the instrument is fitted properly to the player's physique is in my not-so-humble opinion lunacy.

[bloke]

Spreading legs farther apart/ closer together, rotating instruments to the left or right, tucking the bottom bow in closer to the gut or farther away from the gut, and a couple of other strategies usually eliminate the need to customize tubas - at least for me, but for some people it's apparent that none of these strategies work for them.

[Grumpikins]

Yup. My gut is a little too big though. And years ago, it wasnt.... hahaha. Turning into a fat old man...

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[Doc]

Yup. My gut is a little too big though. And years ago, it wasnt.... hahaha. Turning into a fat old man...

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Welcome to the club.

[Grumpikins]

This is what the repair tech did to my mp receiver. It would have looked better if they had bent the leadpipe, but that would have required a lot of additional work and im always on a tight budget. Just too many things to spend money on and never enough money.... i should buy a couple lottery tickets tonight....

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[iiipopes]

Spreading legs farther apart/ closer together, rotating instruments to the left or right, tucking the bottom bow in closer to the gut or farther away from the gut, and a couple of other strategies usually eliminate the need to customize tubas - at least for me, but for some people it's apparent that none of these strategies work for them.

You're right. Over the decades, I have tried all of these items. I'm one of the persons for whom none of them work, and only cause stress and undue fatigue, sometimes outright pain, all being distractions from playing the music in front of me. That's why I prefer outdoor concerts with a sousaphone: the ability to position the neck and bits solves everything, which is what I will be practicing at home until I get my second valve slide to my tuba back from my tech with a water key installed.

[Grumpikins]

I cant remember what it was, but, there was a concert tuba that required 2 bits to play for the performer to position as needed. I just saw one for sale a few months ago. I remember it because if the bits. I dont remember where i saw it. I bet bloke knows what it is. Might be an option.... but i get how the sousa works for you. And if it works, its good. Keep playing.

Occasionally i think about the many people with various disabilities and how they often dont get the opportunity to try to play music. I think that all it would take is determination and creativity by someone with fabrication skills to make adaptations for the individuals needs to make music accessible to them.

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[YorkNumber3.0]

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