A 440

[KerryAbear]

When did instrument manufactures adopt A 440 as the standard? Or I should be asking, After what year is it safe to assume a tuba is pitched to 440 and not have to worry about it being high pitch or low pitch?

From Wikipedia:
“The American music industry reached an informal standard of 440 Hz in 1926, and some began using it in instrument manufacturing.

In 1936, the American Standards Association recommended that the A above middle C be tuned to 440 Hz.[5] This standard was taken up by the International Organization for Standardization in 1955 as Recommendation R 16,[6] before being formalised in 1975 as ISO 16.[7]”

But I’m hoping someone here has more insight and experience.

[bloke]

This is an amusing topic, because there are so many things that can be said about it.

I've been involved in quite a few professional ensembles. They go through the BS motion of tuning - and everyone plays pitches that line up with the "tuning" note, but - as soon as the concert starts - the pitch is higher. String players almost never play in first position, and when players set up their instruments the way they want them but can easily lip and a down to 440 for a tuning note. I have played in a couple of really exceptional ensembles that held to that tuning throughout their concerts.

Some European Orchestra tuning- particularly in Central Europe has been higher, but tuning seems to have become more International and I'm hearing a lot of recordings of Continental European orchestras whereby they're tuning has settled down a couple of notches to the point where American orchestras typically push their tuning up a couple of notches.. so nearly the same. As an example of recent era tuning that was quite high, play the Zarathustra opening from the "2001 A Space Odyssey" soundtrack, and try to play in tune with it.

Hundreds of years ago, SOME pitch in SOME regions was just about exactly one semitone lower, as far as naming the pitches was concerned... but higher in other regions.

As a tuba player, I don't play a lot of Handel, Haydn, or Mozart, but I occasionally do and when playing things such as the Hallelujah Chorus or things like that, I can't help but think about the fact that those pieces would sound more authentic (as an as a specific example) were that particular piece rewritten in D flat major.

This topic is endless, and I know way less about it than so many other people.

[Grumpikins]

I really have never put much stock in "tuning" as in at the begining of a concert or rehearsal. As bloke said, people manipulate thier instruments to " tune" and then go back to thier comfort zone. Also, I find that tuning my Cc tuba to concertmaster Bb or A is absolutely useless. Instead, i use my ear when im playing with a group so as to not sound like a squadron of B52s.

Now, tuning when your practicing is a diferent story. Thats how you learn the tendencies of your horn. Also keep in mind the different chordal properties. Some notes within the chord need to be a little flat or sharp for the chord to be in tune.

All this really didnt have much to do with your question......

Sent from my SM-J327VPP using Tapatalk

[bloke]

Not about 440 specifically, but about different tuning strategies.. I have posted numerous times in the past on this new platform.

[donn]

After what year is it safe to assume a tuba is pitched to 440 and not have to worry about it being high pitch or low pitch?

I searched on the Tubenet site, chisham.com, and found a comment to the effect that B&H stopped making high pitch instruments in the '60s. I think it's fairly safe to assume that American makes dropped high pitch a lot earlier, but there could easily have been special order deals that make it very difficult to put a firm date on it.

[bloke]

"Low pitch" ancient instruments tend to be pretty close to being built for 440 tuning, but occasionally are found to be a bit too long. Obviously, excess length is less of a problem than not enough.

[windshieldbug]

"Low pitch" ancient instruments tend to be pretty close to being built for 440 tuning, but occasionally are found to be a bit too long. Obviously, excess length is less of a problem than not enough.

That's because "Low Pitch" was standardized at 435 internationally before it was 440.
In 1917 the American Federation of Musicians adopted 440 Hz as the tuning standard for A.

[bloke]

"Low pitch" ancient instruments tend to be pretty close to being built for 440 tuning, but occasionally are found to be a bit too long. Obviously, excess length is less of a problem than not enough.

That's because "Low Pitch" was standardized at 335 internationally before it was 440.
In 1917 the American Federation of Musicians adopted 440 Hz as the tuning standard for A.

yes...many related tidbits of info...

[windshieldbug]

Sorry, meant to say 435…

[bloke]

Sorry, meant to say 435…

known

[iiipopes]

Two good summary articles on the change of brass band pitch, including what was considered high pitch A=452 or 453:
https://ibewbrass.wordpress.com/2020/01 ... low-pitch/
https://www.robbstewart.com/high-pitch-and-low-pitch

[bloke]

About the simplest statement that could be made - which is pretty close to completely true - is that the 440 pitch that is currently considered to be "A" by millions of musicians was/is a complete semitone lower and a complete semitone higher in certain places and at certain times.

[iiipopes]

About the simplest statement that could be made - which is pretty close to completely true - is that the 440 pitch that is currently considered to be "A" by millions of musicians was/is a complete semitone lower and a complete semitone higher in certain places and at certain times.

Indeed:
http://www.spiritsound.com/music/pitch.html

[bloke]

1878 - 447 - Vienna State Opera

I have no idea how long this was/is in force...

Listen to those "2001, A Space Odyssey" tracks, and - if they didn't juice the pitch/speed - this is about where those tunes dwell.

[tclements]

MANY tubas are coming in at 442 or even 444. I've had to have more than a few tuning slides lengthened because our orchestra is 440.

[donn]

This has always struck me as weird.

You pull your tuba out of the packing peanuts and give it a toot: rats, A=444Hz.

So how far do you have pull out the main slide? L x (444/440 - 1) / 2, where L is the length you're tuning. Am I wrong?

For the main tuning slide of a BBb tuba - 12" x 18' inches long - that's 1 inch. (I'm dividing by 2 because the slide has two legs.)

So manufacturers are evidently not just building tubas to tune to A=444Hz, they're not even giving you the 1 inch of spare slide it would take to get to A=440Hz?

[bloke]

Yeah Donn, (agreeing / sympathizing)
The "tuba thing" - design-wise - is feeling compelled to make it as conical as possible yet with needed tuning range, and - when they are 12 to 18 ft long - there's going to be a sort of wide range regarding "how people blow into the thing", so guessing where to put the slide how long to make it adjust is always a serious consideration as well as a guess.

It always seems to me that tuba tuning slides affect the pitch more than they should according to mathematical ratios. I have no guess for an explanation for that.