WTB: Besson "Enharmonic" baritone

[funkhoss]

I'm looking for a vintage Besson "Enharmonic" valve baritone horn (British style baritone, not a euphonium).

I know these are pretty rare, but I thought it was worth a shot to post an ad! If you have one you'd sell, or know someone who does, please let me know: funkhoss@gmail.com.

Thanks!

-Funkhoss

[the elephant]

Would that be pitched in A#, then?

Good luck in your search. BUMP!

[funkhoss]

Yes--the enharmonic pitch of this instrument is indeed A-sharp!



Thanks for the bump!!

-Funkhoss

[iiipopes]

For everybody else out there, the Besson Enharmonic system was invented to compete with the Boosey-Blaikley compensating system we all know. It essentially used the third valve as as switch valve to either have normal pitch on the first & second valves when used alone, then to switch over to a second set of slides of longer set of slides on the first and second valves to provide the pitches in tune for valve combinations using the 3rd valve. Rare. When Boosey and Besson merged, the Besson system was discontinued. The pros are that they are just as in tune in valve combination and arguably less stuffy than the now conventional Boosey-Blaikley system; the cons being, especially for the tubas, unwieldy and much heavier from all the extra plumbing. Yes, the Besson Enharmonic system was adapted for all the piston low brass: baritones, euphs, Eb and BBb tubas.

[funkhoss]

Thanks, iiipopes.

The Enharmonic system was available on all Besson instruments: I've seen cornets, flugelhorns, and E-flat tenor (alto) horns with it, as well.

I had an Enharmonic baritone years ago. It was in very poor condition, so I ended up selling it. I'd like to find another one, preferably in playable condition!

-Funkhoss

[iiipopes]

Thanks, iiipopes.

The Enharmonic system was available on all Besson instruments: I've seen cornets, flugelhorns, and E-flat tenor (alto) horns with it, as well.

I had an Enharmonic baritone years ago. It was in very poor condition, so I ended up selling it. I'd like to find another one, preferably in playable condition!

-Funkhoss

I stand corrected. Thanks. Do you want a cornet as well?
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/ ... -305011572

[funkhoss]

Nope. I stink at high brass!

-Funkhoss

[iiipopes]

Nope. I stink at high brass!
-Funkhoss

I tend to as well, hence we are all here on a tuba forum. I have one ensemble where I play trumpet, and by the end of an evening, whether rehearsal or performance, I am exhausted!

[LargeTuba]

Cool video about it.



Happy Thanksgiving!

[humBell]

I tried not to ogle, but i recently saw an enharmonic BBb.

And i figured out it must be one of these, and just saw the Eb valve block in the video above so i am now confirmed in my identification. That is wicked clever!

[Rick Denney]

Clever, maybe. But the last one I played was stuffy as hell and much more so than a Blaikley 3-valve compensator.

It was shown as a prototype and indeed had copper tubing in parts. Mid-20’s, I’d guess.

Rick “sold it to a guy that absolutely loved it for his period band, though” Denney

[humBell]

This sounded very good and well blended with everyone else, especially taking the lower part on octave splits, which i could somewhat pick out.

But alas, i only heard so much. My bell was between me and it, and i was having trouble playing anything but way too loud...

(good for busking, not so much for ensemble, even though i did leave it with a repair fellow who freed all the slides so now i can tune, and cleaned it off, asking if it had been in a fire or something, and complaining that the patina or soot all came off with the least drop of water, leaving it pink-silver)

[humBell]

I snooze, i lose.

I suppose it is only torture to look through sold items on ebay, but @funkhoss, i hope you ended up with this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/175563498713

[funkhoss]

I did see that one, but didn't bid. It's a euphonium, not a baritone.

[humBell]

Glad ya saw it!

I have always been fuzzy about that distinction.

I apologize for my ignorance (or apathy*) on the matter.



* mostly the first, but it has been an open question for me long enough, left to handwaving guesses when asked, that i guess i should eventually begrudgingly admit the second, especially if it finally motivates me to resolve it.

Also how was the double bell really used by composers?

Meh... too lazy to open a real discussion where it is suppose to go...

[humBell]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/354812006539



@funkhoss

I don't know how much interest/value there is in this, missing pistons and slides, but so far, it is the first 3+1 enharmonic i have come cross, so worth pointing out.

(and still can't distinguish between a baritone and a euphonium (at least not on sight) so my my opinions may be a long way from useful.)

[funkhoss]

This one is a euphonium. On a Besson baritone from this era, the top branch is wrapped behind the valves, instead of above them. And, the bell on a Besson & Co. baritone is 9" in diameter, vs. 10.5" on the euphoniums.

Unfortunately, I'd say it's not worth much, except perhaps as a parts instrument for another 3+1 Enharmonic euph. You're not likely to find three replacement valves for it, and it would be prohibitively expensive to have ones made for it.

[humBell]

@funkhoss

Rumor has it there is one on facebook tuba/euphonium market place in England for 400£ + shipping.

I am sadly not on that there facebook, so i don't actually know.

[arpthark]

Yep. I just bought a Boosey Eb from this same seller (Fergus McIver). He is great and willing to ship to the USA. Be prepared to pay your own import duty (mine was about $60 that I had to pay to DHL). He takes PayPal which doesn't have the best $-£ conversion rate but it worked in a pinch.

[funkhoss]

Thanks for letting me know! It looks like it's in pretty decent shape.

I'm not really looking for one anymore, though. I ended up franken-horning one of these Besson & Co. baritones with a four-valve compensating valveset in 2022. It plays great, and the whole project cost less than this one that's now for sale.