Midnight Miraphone, playing impressions

[MN_TimTuba]

I bought my first instrument from Horn Stash. Good people. A stone’s throw away from Chicago. Get yourself over to Paradise Pup in Des Plaines right next to Dana Hofer’s for the best burgers you’ll have!

Great tip - I'm always ready for a good burger! However, we'll probably head over to Hackney's in Wheeling. My wife was a waitress there for several years. Their burgers, their Ruebens, and their onion blossoms are absolutely memorable! Oh, and that cheesecake!
Tim

[bloke]

weird coincidence:
We decided to serve ruebens for lunch to our Christmas visitors one day this next week.

Mrs. bloke had to look all over the place to round up all the ingredients - supply chain (let's starve out the serfs to solve overpopulation) issues.

[MN_TimTuba]

Sweet! Are you using dark pumpernickel rye or a marble rye?
Hungry Tim

[Tubajug]

Sweet! Are you using dark pumpernickel rye or a marble rye?
Hungry Tim

I always make them with pumpernickel. Maybe they do it different in Tennessee.

[bloke]

Sweet! Are you using dark pumpernickel rye or a marble rye?
Hungry Tim

again, "whatever she could find" rye

bloke " Rueben, Ruebin, I've been thinking..."

[Three Valves]

Sweet! Are you using dark pumpernickel rye or a marble rye?
Hungry Tim

I always make them with pumpernickel. Maybe they do it different in Tennessee.

They do it differently everywhere!

Rye with seeds.

[MN_TimTuba]

[quote=

bloke " Rueben, Ruebin, I've been thinking..."
[/quote]

Sadly, another fine song our grand children will never learn, unless we teach it to them.
Others on that list:
Drill ye tarriers, drill
Bicycle Built for Two
Michael Finnegan
Old Dan Tucker
and so many more.

Tim

[MN_TimTuba]

Last Saturday Sandy and I made the 9 hr trip to Arlington Heights, IL, arriving just before 10 pm. Stayed with the family that had kindly picked up my Mirafone. Left Sunday afternoon, arriving back at the homestead at midnight. I've been playing the 83 a bit everyday, and this is my report. A couple of you have already read much of this, you know who you are.
First, I'm having difficulty wrapping my brain around not having Bb as a starting point. My mind hears one thing, the horn does something else. I'll get there, but man, it takes a toot or two to find my starting pitch on anything, whether printed music or playing without.
Next, almost everything anyone cautioned me about is true (imagine that). The horn has a sweet mid range, nice high range, but down low it sounds like someone stuffed an old pair of long johns down the bell, and not clean ones at that. I hope to find a way to work with that.
Thirdly, mouthpiece selection seems to be critical. I've tried 5 different pieces on this thing, with different results from each.
* Marcinkiewicz George Roberts bass trombone piece. Just as an experiment, but this was ridiculously small, I couldn't play much at all.
* Marcinkiewicz Tommy Johnson N4*. I had high hopes for this one, but it turned the 83 into a blatt machine. Nothing sounded 'pretty', or even close.
* Wessex Chief. Inconsistent intonation, but the sound is really cool. Makes this tuba sound like a bass french horn. Totally different sound from all of the others. Cool, but not useable at this point.
* PT88. Really makes this 83 sound almost like a contrabass tuba, but the high range suffers (so far). I may use this one for bass lines with the Dixie band.
* Couesnon BBb. This little Helleberg is the smallest tuba piece I have, and it does the best job in all ranges, for intonation, and acceptable bass lines. Will probably be my choice until I find a real Eb mouthpiece.
My late 80's Miraphone catalog says the original mouthpiece is a 1M, deep cup, with a 1.16" diameter rim. Also says bore is .700 with a 15" bell, tho' this front bell measures 15.5". The Couesnon mouthpiece (roughly) measures a bit over 1.25" rim opening.
Lastly, unlike everything else I've read about Mirafones - and my own experience with my 191 - this horn is definitely not "point and shoot" when it comes to intonation. I find a lot of very wide slots, a lot of flat pitches (relative to the scale of the horn) - and the horn plays VERY sharp according to the tuner. I imagine much of that is due to my using contrabass mouthpieces, although with the Couesnon the tuning issues are moderated to where some active lipping is effective.
Overall, so far, I really like this horn. The size and weight are great for my intended purposes, it's comfortable to hold, the patina and bell-front make it an eye-catcher, and I'm really digging the clockwork mechanism. Honestly, the rotors (tho' clanky) are faster than they were on my 191. I'm hoping that if I use a mouthpiece bit it will bring the pitch down enough that I can play with the band or with piano accompaniment. Oh, and the Pro-Tech bag is terrific.
So, for now I'm asking for mouthpiece advice. I'm hoping to not have to buy several $150+ pieces in order to find a suitable one. Not knowing anything about Mirafone pieces, is there an other brand & model that would be similar to the 1M?
Thanks for reading, and I appreciate any advice, mouthpiece or otherwise.
PS. Hackney's in Wheeling is permanently closed. Once there were 5 locations, now only 2. Sigh.
Tim

M Catalog 2.jpg (113.12 KiB) Viewed 1081 times

M Catalog 1.jpg (76.51 KiB) Viewed 1081 times

[LargeTuba]

Like I said earlier, I had spent a decent amount of time playing that horn. I had some good success with a very small mouthpiece, but YMMV.

[bort2.0]

I'll post more later, but for now, this is the only old-to-new Miraphone mouthpiece list that I know... And I fortunately doesn't include the 1-M.

https://hornguys.com/products/miraphone-tuba-mouthpiece

You may have luck by emailing and asking Miraphone. They are great about replying to emails.

[donn]

So, for now I'm asking for mouthpiece advice. I'm hoping to not have to buy several $150+ pieces in order to find a suitable one. Not knowing anything about Mirafone pieces, is there an other brand & model that would be similar to the 1M?

1-M is now TU03. Mouthpiece for Tuba TU03 It's small shank.

Anything in particular that you are hoping to improve on, vs. the Couesnon that you say works for this tuba? That 1.25" inside is sort of ordinary medium small, where the TU03 is real real small, a size not often found outside the museum. What you'll find on the shelves are ordinary tuba mouthpieces that just aren't overly large, similar to the Couesnon I guess. Schilke 66, Conn 7B etc., and bass tuba mouthpieces that are a bit shallower - Schilke 62 for example. Denis Wick 5L is unusually small, published inside diameter 1.81", and it's relatively deep for a nice full sound.

[JRaymo]

Id be interested to hear about a York Master Eb? Ive never heard of such tuba.

Glad you got a new horn!

Contact Norm Epley. The photos did not clearly show the bell engraving, I'm just going by what he said it is. I'd not heard of an Eb Master either, but it was smaller than the Monster for sure and very nice.
Tim

I talked to Norm Epley. He has the York master Eb that I once owned. The original owner I had gotten it from was Ray Dcamp in the Indianapolis area. The York master Eb is top action three valve fixed bell up. The tuba played nice when I owned it. Very small and lightweight. Kind of reminded me of the small conns.

I thought about buying it back just because Ray was a good friend of mine who had long passed away. I’m headed down to that area to pick up my sousaphone. I may stop in a check it out.

There was another one that was in the classifieds that had a detachable bell front with front valves and a hard case.


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[bloke]

I would probably also recommend exploring a very small mouthpiece. I'm not suggesting something that's like a contrabass trombone. I'm suggesting something that still feels like a tuba mouthpiece to your face, but is remarkably shallow.

(I've never had much success with - nor seen much point in - using a mouthpiece that negates or fights the natural sonic characteristics of an instrument.)

This is not an advertisement, but just an aside. I'm currently exploring just such a mouthpiece - at least for myself, and possibly to market.

[Mary Ann]

Is the 83 all that different from a 183? Because it sure seems like the problems he's having are not problems I have with my 183. What are the differences? Mine has a standard receiver on it, but so does his. And I have bell up, he doesn't.

[MN_TimTuba]

Is the 83 all that different from a 183? Because it sure seems like the problems he's having are not problems I have with my 183.

MaryAnn, et al,
I'm pretty sure that a big part of the issue is me. I've only played BBb horns before, and most of them pretty large. After playing this Eb for a while every day for a week, things seem to be tightening up. I still don't always hit my starting pitch accurately (my brain still hasn't transitioned to Eb), but I'm sounding more musical. Last night I played for over an hour - hymns, show tunes, kid songs, etc. - and I was mostly pleased with what came out the bell. The low 4th valve pitches still sound stuffy, but this horn has a killer false tone range with 2 of my mouthpieces.
That brings me to my other issue, the mouthpiece. The Couesnon and the PT88 are the best of what I have, but I feel there could be better out there; along those lines, I've got another smaller mouthpiece on the way, we'll see how that works for me. I keep thinking "narrower cup", but Joe mentioned going to a shallower cup, and I respect that advice, so I may pick his brain further as well.
Finally, I'm open to the possibility that the horn may have an issue or two, particularly with 4th valve, although it may just be a "small rotary horn" issue, because my (cheap) oval baryton plays the same down low. I may bring both to the MN Tuba conference in April and ask Lee S and Dave W to give them a toot - if those two sound terrific then I know where the real issue is. I had no trouble at all producing ANY pitches on my short-lived (rotary) 191, but that was a larger horn.
So, I'll keep playing, try to train my brain pitch-wise, and try another mp or two, and hopefully get the opinion of a couple of pros.
If I can sound the way I wanna sound, then she's a keeper. I knew there would be a learning curve, but I'm having fun and I have high hopes.
Advice, opinions, questions, and encouragements are always appreciated.
Tim

[donn]

I keep thinking "narrower cup", but Joe mentioned going to a shallower cup

Both smaller volume cup parameters. If the tuba really responds differently to different mouthpiece cups, in terms of fundamental issues like pitch, then my bet is that it's about volume, and a shallow cup will come out the same as a narrow cup. If it were all about the cup dimensions, which of course it isn't.

[Mary Ann]

On my 183, the high range is flat, no matter what volume of cup I use with the cups I own (six or seven) and the cups I've tried (but they were big cups that my friend likes on his NStar, which is a different beast.) I'd say the 183 is not very mouthpiece sensitive, or maybe it's me that isn't.

One thing a BBb player might be doing differently is air speed. My 183 will take a LOT of air speed that the 184 just backs up on (I am STILL burbling attacks because apparently I "tongue too hard" or "something," for it.) So Tim might just try blasting and see what happens, more or less. It takes a LOT of air to get the 183 to bark. I don't have another brass that I can just push air through like I can this thing. The 184 barks and the horn would just break up. So -- a "less thick" air column that is in more of a hurry, is something to try.

[bloke]

Playing the huge Miraphone B-flat so much lately, when I play anything else I have to immediately throttle back.. "less bloke, LESS !!!"

The F tuba feels like a toy, at first...

[JRaymo]

Playing the huge Miraphone B-flat so much lately, when I play anything else I have to immediately throttle back.. "less bloke, LESS !!!"

The F tuba feels like a toy, at first...

That’s one of the things I miss about owning my big CC. Made my large Eb feel like a small tuba.


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