the sacrifices involved in dedicated practicing

[bloke]

I've put in a bunch of hours, lately, working (and - also - against the aging process) to recover my playing ability ("prowess", if you will) back (as close as I can manage) to as it was when in my mid-30's, or so.

Every instrument is sounding better, resonating more - and more purely, and I'm not having to evaluate (up until recently: minimal) practice goals/accomplishments as "OK...That's good enough so as others will consider it to be good."

Having confessed to all of that...
It has cost (in real money) several thousand dollars in productivity (this, rather than income-generating repair work - whether customer work or elevating shop-owned instruments to saleable desirability) as well as having to ignore/delay some home and property maintenance, in order to move back up to a higher level of performing ability.

the point of this...??
I dunno...
Maybe its that - once one is no longer the responsibility OF others - and becomes responsible FOR others, maintaining a high level of artistic skillsets becomes (again) quite costly.

bloke "I suspect that playing a stringed instrument or the trumpet or a woodwind instrument might (??) have kept me more 'honest', yet possibly more impoverished."

[Tim Jackson]

Some folks must climb Mount Everest, some folks must master an instrument. Not because one must, but because one is so driven. I define “player” as someone who continues to work toward the highest level not because you must but because it is who you are.
I think many players, including myself worked their ever-loving butt off in college aiming for the highest levels. Once out of school, the realities of life began to chip away at the mission. Job, family, family, job.
I, for one, felt like most of my abilities were built on the time I put in during the “practice all day” period during college. For years after, it was – play enough to maintain that level. I often wonder how good the 2nd tier orchestras would be if all the players were shedding every day.
Sometime around my 50th birthday, I told my wife – something is missing in my life. The mission of truly mastering an instrument had been “on hold” for 25 years. Oh, I was doing plenty of playing, gigging, and earning a living in the music field… but the quest for “what could be” was missing. That’s when I bought the HB21 I started moving up again. Amazing how an hour or two a day can move things along.
Yes, it takes away from all my other life chores. It takes up valuable time, it doesn’t produce money, it doesn’t produce gigs, it is just who I am. I feel more complete.
Bloke… it is who you are. No other explanation.

TJ

[bloke]

I often wonder how good the 2nd tier orchestras would be if all the players were shedding every day.

If you've read much of my crap, I maintain that's just about the only difference.

Dedication is about 90% more important than talent.

Back when I auditioned (and never really felt like I wanted one of those "full-time" orchestra jobs, but was attracted to the medical insurance, as I had/have a messed-up offspring), I would sometimes be a "semi" or "final" person when others (who have really prominent jobs, today) wouldn't make any of the cuts...but they kept pluggin', and did it. (In the meantime, I discovered "Medishare"...and now: I'm too old to be interested in showing up several times a week, and rehearsing - and - often, every three or four years - playing all the same stuff (along with a parade of dubious play-it-once-and-toss-it stuff) over-and-over.

...and something else:

The conservatories and conservatory-level music departments/schools (responsibly...?? irresponsibly...?? you decide...) have flooded the market with highly-trained classical musicians, and I believe you'll (ie. "y'all will") find (if you attend some of their concerts) that podunk-100K-population-$5K-$20K-philharmonics are sounding - more-and-more - like full-time orchestras.

Admittedly, there's ain't no Mahler or Dvorak here (hey, a gig's a gig), but this is friggin' Tupelo, Mississippi ...and I didn't see many (perhaps a handful?) of people who commuted in from any million-plus-population towns, there (rehearsals: two hurried run-throughs)...MOSTLY: northern Mississippi folks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm9xCcsboQs

[jtm]

When I was visiting a stroke patient in the hospital Friday, the physical therapist explained that just a couple days stuck in bed (independent of stroke problems) can be enough to require some extra exercise to recover capabilities. Kind of scary, but maybe playing is like that, too.

[ronr]

"If I don't practice one day, I know it; two days, the critics know it; three days, the public knows it." - Jascha Heifetz

[ProAm]

A few years ago my playing time had been reduced to pretty much just Easter and Christmas church jobs. I could pick up the horn and, with a month of fairly regular practice, be ready to go. Then there came a Christmas where that didn't work. I started working and a week or two into practice I felt something happen to my lip. I had to take days off, totally off, to recover and try again. When the Christmas job arrived I was not in good shape and barely survived it.

Around the start of 2020 (I'm in my early 60's at this point) I decided to try to get back to what I thought that I used to be able to do. I worked slowly, trying to build strength, then found a weekly playing opportunity. I started to feel like I was getting back. But every now and then I will feel something happen in my lip and I have to lay off for days to recover. This usually happens as I am getting ready to play a solo. It seems like if I work to build endurance I injure myself and if I don't work, I don't have the endurance I need.

I have time to practice these days, I had some extra money and bought a handful of nice horns that I've wanted, but my lip is failing me. Probably I've relied on brute force too much over the years and it has caught up with me.

What's the moral here? I think I got too lax at a critical time of life. I wish that I had done more to maintain my abilities during my late 40's and 50's. I fear that I've gotten to a point that I cannot recover from. I'm kind of sad about it but I'm not giving up quite yet. If it doesn't work out, I'll have a couple extra hours a day to devote to something different, I suppose.

-- Joe

[DonO.]

As a “come back player” I had taken a 25+ year break. I decided to buy a horn and try to get back to at least what I had in my 40’s. I was surprised at how quickly everything started to come back with just a little work. Technical aspects came back the most quickly. I guess all the ingrained synapse patterns were still there. Pleasing to the ear tone quality took a couple of months. Range is still a work in progress over a year later, as is consistency. But I’m happy with what I’ve achieved so far and having fun. The big hurdle I’ve found is endurance. As in, I have none. I have a opportunity to play in an alumni jazz band at my Alma Mater in April. It will have a three hour rehearsal in the afternoon and concert that evening. I have been trying to make my practice sessions longer a bit at a time and hoping I can endure it.

[bloke]

ProAm...

One of my many faults is that - rather than offering a sympathetic ear (which is probably what most are seeking) I tend to meddle, and suggest fixes and work-arounds (which are really not what most are seeking).

Something that I myself tend to to is mash - whether or not I currently have my embouchure muscles in top condition.
Thankfully, I do it less when I've pulled myself together really well, but I still need to remind myself to not.
Also, I tend to "work" slurring on large instruments (rather than "RELEASING" into slurs - which ALWAYS works, as long as the release goes precisely to the right place - above or below the previous pitch).
Those two things probably - can overwork and "mess up" the facial muscles (as well as irritate the hell out the skin).

I'm getting better and better at NOT doing those things...and a few people are fooled into considering me to be a "really good" player...but I have playing demons, and - I am quite sure - players far better than myself have them as well.

I suspect you can review some of the things you're doing (maybe, not the same as my pitfalls) and avoid muscle fatigue/cramping/etc.

something that makes me happy: the successes of others, whenever possible

[2nd tenor]

I have the good fortune to both not be particularly talented and to know that limitation, as such I’m not torn about what I could achieve if I practiced more but simply play for pleasure and enjoy what I can do. Certainly practice time can be wasted time in that if I could be earning instead then that would be / should be where my efforts were focussed: playing is for fun after work and chores are done. Even if I were talented enough to play professionally you have to be pretty good, exceptional even, to earn more than you would in a regular job and you also have to be prepared to travel away from home and do antisocial hours, etc. There’s a work / life / family balance to every job.

A couple of people up thread have mentioned lip trouble. Whilst we just accept this and get on with it Tuba mouthpieces are big, they push the limits of what is possible and practical. When I moved up from Trombone playing I found that Tuba mouthpieces were tiring to use and it was difficult to control my lips (because the new lip reed length was significantly longer than I was used to). YMMV but my way forward was to use small cup mouthpieces (for me that was 28 mm on an Eb Bass) and to not bother with the extremes of pitch range. Over a few years I worked up to and now use standard sized (31 - 32 mm) cups, my range is over three octaves and that is more than sufficient for my needs / what’s asked of me.

Practise sessions? Though - when time allows - I now play for much longer practise sessions used to 15 to 25 minutes at a time, once or even twice a day, as my lips would tolerate it; always listen to your body and accept its feedback. Exercise is good but either by load or by duration it’s daft to over-push healthy or damaged muscles; pace yourself, be kind to yourself, don’t automatically expect to be able to do all of the stuff that you once could do and take simple pleasure from what you can comfortably manage to achieve. Aim at progressively making small improvements over a long period of time and accept that we all pretty much plateau somewhere; I’m still climbing and whilst the ability improvement is barely perceptible it doesn’t detract from the fun of playing and for fun is why I play.

something that makes me happy: the successes of others, whenever possible

[bloke]

My opinion is that most tuba mouthpiece rims are too wide (and that quite-sharp interior edges aren't particularly helpful...but I'm certainly not any sort of scientist, and am nothing more than an opinion-ist.

[Tim Jackson]

I was lucky enough to have some lessons with Chester Schmidt during the period he was living in Pensacola. I was playing a little "ham-handed" a piano term that I use to describe way too much facial muscle tension. Actually, I was into this type of clarinet embouchure brute strength approach. Yes, crazy - I like going down roads to see where they end up. Too much muscle... Which I know slows down flexibility and can cause other problems as well. One day I was playing some high passages and asked where should I feel the muscles working. He pointed to a spot below my corners and just up from the bottom of my face. This blew me away. Also changed my whole outlook. I've always been into "make it easy and relaxed" but needed a reminder to get me back on track. We were also working a lot with the mirror - keeping the face relaxed. Of course, I always take things too far... got so relaxed I had to turn it back a bit. Like focusing... finding just enough muscle to keep things sounding good and in control but NO MORE.

Back to this thread! Chester made the comment several times "do it this way and you'll never have problems. You'll play all your life" We are all different, but at the same time - muscles is muscles, and skin is skin! It is certainly easy to play way too hard and press way more than needed. This brings on all sorts of problems.

Look for a light, free, relaxed approach. Find a really good teacher. Look at Adolph Herseth. He's playing his butt off and it looks so relaxed. He also played all his life. I'm no expert - but I do believe if there is a will there is a way. Don't be shy about finding help.

TJ

[Mary Ann]

I always had horrid endurance problems on horn, and it seemed the more I practiced the worse it got.

On tuba, I can play basically forever. I decided the reason for that is that you can barely even SEE my corners in a tuba cup -- the point being that it is impossible for me to use pressure because the pressure goes on my face bones, not my lips. Because of that, I HAD to develop a working embouchure that was pressure-less.

Back to horn: I had MORE stamina if I laid off for 2-3 days, which was beyond frustrating. Here is the fascinating part; this is actually quite recent. I started putting in a lot of time on oboe because I want to be able to play my Cor Anglais in a group, and in order to do that, I will need to be accepted as a 2nd oboe, which meant I have to do some serious practicing to up my level. Oboe, you cannot use pressure -- what you are doing is keeping your lips closed gently around the reed while you blow your brains out getting air through the silly thing. And what happens is that your muscles just plain give out and you can't hold your lips in place any more, and you have to stop. So --- I instituted this "play almost to failure, then take a five minute rest, repeat." And Lo and Behold SUDDENLY I have much better horn chops. Apparently same (close enough) musculature, but on horn I could (and did) resort to pressure to keep playing and so never, ever, really developed those muscles. Now -- I am fascinated at the results. The lesson being, if you resort to pressure, you are working against yourself.

[2nd tenor]

Thanks MA, it was years before I discovered it but cross-training on instruments can have many benefits.

[bloke]

Knowing - really well - what something is supposed to sound like also helps (along with a properly set-up instrument and a good mouthpiece)...and I'm NOT dismissing ANY of the previous posts.

I remember pulling out a repaired baritone sax for a band director, and playing through the range - to show them how nicely it plays (so - if their student sucked - or their student's mouthpiece or reed sucked - we wouldn't be blamed, nor have it brought right back).

The band director asked, "What kind of sax do you have?"
I thought they meant "TO SELL"...so I started listing those for sale...

...and they interrupted and said, "NO...your OWN sax...??"

me: "I don't play the saxophone, and don't own any personally."

"...but you sound like a 'professional',"

me: "...until you ask me to play anything other than a C scale, an A scale, an A-flat scale, a chromatic scale, or any music written down on paper that's much faster than half notes..."

bloke "saxophone: the 'baritone horn' of the woodwind family: If someone has NO talent, hand them a SAXOPHONE...They'll be able to get a sound out of it."

[Mary Ann]

On any wind instrument, proper use of air is proper use of air. Once you figure that out, you can get a decent sound pretty much right away on all of them.

[bloke]

On any wind instrument, proper use of air is proper use of air. Once you figure that out, you can get a decent sound pretty much right away on all of them.

not-enough vibration or too-much vibration of the initiating device (double-lips, double-reeds, single reed, whistle-initiating labium - on a flute/recorder)...

...a wind instrument won't sound very much like a human voice (as that's what most all of them attempt to do).

[Casca Grossa]

A fatted calf and a goat.

[Doc]

Maybe its that - once one is no longer the responsibility OF others - and becomes responsible FOR others, maintaining a high level of artistic skillsets becomes (again) quite costly.

This is why you better practice your tail off while you are still young, in school, and don’t have family or job obligations. That is your time, while you still have loads of time, to reach a level of proficiency that might lead to winning auditions, getting work, etc. Once you are a working stiff, especially if you have a spouse, children, mortgage, etc., your time is devoted to those things and support of those things, and a little time is left to practice beyond maintenance, much less major improvements.

And sometimes that can really suck.

[2nd tenor]

Maybe its that - once one is no longer the responsibility OF others - and becomes responsible FOR others, maintaining a high level of artistic skillsets becomes (again) quite costly.

This is why you better practice your tail off while you are still young, in school, and don’t have family or job obligations. That is your time, while you still have loads of time, to reach a level of proficiency that might lead to winning auditions, getting work, etc. Once you are a working stiff, especially if you have a spouse, children, mortgage, etc., your time is devoted to those things and support of those things, and a little time is left to practice beyond maintenance, much less major improvements.

And sometimes that can really suck.

Perspectives vary so much and cultures can be similar but subtly different. Why go to University and why work hard at anything that noticeably diverts your resources from options / topics that are more likely to help keep a roof over your head and food on your table? To be a professional musician you have to have loads of talent, the right personality and some lucky breaks in order to survive in what’s (on average) not a well paid profession.

When you’re in school or university then by all means enjoy recreational playing and develop what skills you readily can, but beware that once you’re responsible for your own finances relatively few employers pay much for music - though they still might value musical achievements that indicate stick-ability and mental ability - and many pay good money for folk who can apply knowledge: focus on what’s likely to pay and don’t sacrifice your likely future income. If you’re both well qualified and lucky then you’ll find a job that you like for much of the time, life’s often not easy but it sucks a lot less if your work brings you joy (and covers the bills too). Well that’s my experience, for what it’s worth, and YMMV.

[Rick Denney]

Back in the day, I realized that what distinguished good players from people like me was that at some point in their tuba-playing career, they had a period of daily (read: every freaking day) practicing and playing for many hours. For lots of musicians who study music in college, that's the time when they do that.

My own tuba career was on hiatus for most of college, because my living circumstances didn't allow it and I didn't own a playable tuba anyway. When I started playing again, it had to fit into "the sacrifices involved in dedicated engineering development," which took (and still takes) priority.

But after grad school and when I left the state agency where I started my career, I took a couple of municipal positions in Austin and San Antonio, which gave me some years of very little travel away from home. It was during that time that I learned F tuba and started playing in various small ensembles with Ray Grim and others, and it was during that time when I took some proper lessons. Then, the newly formed Tubameisters got the gig at Fiesta Texas, and that entailed playing for hours every day for a whole year. (In those days, I could work that hard and I didn't have family considerations.) There is now doubt that I cross bridges during that year, and once on the other side have not needed to go back.

But now I'm back to two steps forward, three steps back. I'll have a few weeks when I'm at home and not busy with other responsibilities, and my chops will come back to some level of consistency. Then, I'll have a spate of travel (and I'm on the road about 50%, or was before Covid) and lose it all again. And the tremor problems I've been dealing with are the third step back.

One of the reasons many pros stop playing altogether when they retire is that they can't tolerate themselves in the roller-coaster of amateur playing, but I'm not that strict :) (There are lots of other reasons why they stop, too, of course--I'm not judging. When I retire from my engineering work, I don't know if I'll simply walk away and not do it at all any more, but it's a distinct possibility.)

Rick "for whom real advances have been marked by a series of epiphanies cemented permanently by practice" Denney