YFB-621 Mods

[the elephant]

I have been asked about the things I did to make my YFB-621 so much more suitable for a person who "sits tall" as I do. (I am 6'2" but only have a 30" inseam, so I have an unusually long spine, like someone who is about 6'6" tall.)

Further, the right wrist position is absolutely PAINFUL for some people, due to the terrible valve set angle.

Also, many of these little horns play very well, but are super-sharp, requiring you to pull the MTS almost to the ends. This can cause the slide to fall out as you play, and it will be slightly lower than the bottom bow, causing you to constantly push it back in as you play. Some of these horns play well in tune at A=440Hz with the slide out about an inch or so, but most do not. (I think @Rick Denney has one of the ones that plays like it was built for the 440 tuning standard. I have only played for ones that play in tune with the MTS out an inch at A=443Hz. Mine was one of those. Yamaha swears they did not make two pitch standards for this horn. To the "suits" at Yamaha, I would suggest traveling around the world with a good tubist and a tuner to test their horns and see what I am griping about. It is dead common for this extreme sharpness to be the case. If you play with the MTS out about an inch the overall intonation of the tuba becomes VERY good, and the super-sharp second space Ab is much closer to the other notes in the 23 series.

There are also a few water traps. I farted around with extra water keys and ended up liking one of them on the 3rd loop.

Here is a write-up I did for @arpthark that I thought might be worth having in the archives for future modders if they have issues with their YFB-621. I have never worked on the 621 CC and BBb versions enough to know their quirks, so I would not recommend any of this for them; this is aimed squarely at the F-flavored 621.

Remember, kids: YMMV!
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The main issue with this tuba's design is the ergonomics of the right wrist. Some people can hold their right wrist in this position for hours at a stretch for many years. And some of us can't. I can't. Or I won't, more accurately.



I played in this horrible position for years before I tooled up my home shop. I did several things to fix this and the other major issue with this tuba: the distance between the bottom bow and the mouthpiece receiver.

I am about 6'2" but have short legs. If I had been graced with long legs I would be over 6'6", but as things stand, I have a very long spine and "sit tall". This tuba is for munchkins. If I sit up straight up with a 621 on my lap, the mouthpiece hits the center of my sternum. This is highly sub-optimal.

A third issue (that is not as ubiquitous) is that these horns frequently seem to be built at A=443 and are screamingly sharp! Yamaha has never admitted to building these at different pitch levels like Miraphone and MW, but I suspect they accidentally guilt a bunch for the US market at a higher pitch standard. I had to pull my MTS as far as it could go without it falling out, and I was still always riding high to everyone else in a group that rides high anyway. The most common fix was to extend the inner MTS legs about three inches.

To fix all this in one go,

• I lengthened the leadpipe by about three inches

I spliced in a straight bit of .689" tubing between the end and the 5th rotary valve. This greatly lessened the strain on my middle back from hunching over to reach the mouthpiece.

• I moved the thumb ring up 1.25"

• I bent the thumb lever to fit the new location.

These two mods unkinked my hand a bit and allowed me to rotate my wrist to a more comfortable position. The thumb ring bracket had to be ground down on one end to fit over another brace foot it had to sit on top of.

• I added a ring to the top OUTSIDE crook of the 1st slide.

This allowed me to hold the tuba while being able to reach the st slide.

These mods made playing this little tuba a lot less painful for me. This model tends to have a bottom space Ab that is *very* sharp. If you play in Ab you will need to keep your hand on that slide to move it most of the way out all the time. It is a known quirk of this horn's wrap that they could not figure out, I supposed. It was lessened somewhat when I altered the leadpipe, which allowed me to play with the MTS out only 1.5" out — far better than when it was almost four inches out. In fact, all the intonation was cleaned up by this leadpipe mod.

I am looking for higher res versions of these pics, but I think this was the best an iPhone 3G could do back then. Sorry!

First slide pull ring…


Lengthened leadpipe with a curved end to allow it to be longer AND bend over to the side to fit the bell. If you look carefully you can see the lighter stripe in the brass where the leadpipe used to be. You can also see how much better the MTS pull is.


Original leadpipe location, for comparison. The Coke can is an excellent reference for just how small these horns are.


My old friend Paul Sidey (RIP) had a beautiful silver-plated 621. It is in the upper photo. Mine is the lower one. You can see how far I moved the thumb ring and bent the lever to reduce the sharp pains in my pinky and wrist.


Another shot of this tuba's lengthened leadpipe from a different angle.


Additionally, the horn has two or three water traps. I added two waterkeys to help with this. This one was effective. The other did nothing to help. This is on the 3rd slide loop.


Another leadpipe shot…


Same. Note that I also "lifted" it from the bell. I don't think that it had much effect on things. On some horns, it seems to do good stuff, and on some, it does nothing at all. On both of my 186s lifting the leadpipe had negative effects.


One more of the altered thumb position.

[arpthark]

Thanks Wade for this write-up.

I doubt I will run into the "sits tall" problem though; I am a hobbitish 5'6" with a 28" inseam, so the Yamaclone might sit just right for me.

However, the info on the wrist ergonomics and tuning workarounds are very helpful.

Looking forward to putting some of this to good use here in a month and a half or so.

[bloke]

Has anyone ever bought an old beat up hunderd-buck Yamaha 104, stuck a cut down King valve section on it, and built their own version of a 621f ?

[LittleJon1]

Any recommendations for a gig bag for a tuba this size ?

[the elephant]

I always used a leather Cronkhite that was made for that specific tuba. It fit very nicely. It was also expensive, and those boys at Torpedo who make them now are keeping the price higher enough to pretty much keep them out of the hands of mere "thousandaires" such as myself. I have never seen another bag that fit that tuba nearly so well. Sorry.

[LittleJon1]

Messina and Cronkite are what I came up with also. The latter offering a 25% discount. I hate to pay that much for a bag for my JP179 , but I would like to experience the little tuba advantage . The hard case is excellent , but it’s as big as my Miraphone in its gig bag .

[Mary Ann]

I haven't looked into this, and it depends on what you can use. But there are people who repair tents and put new zippers in them. I would think maybe one of those people might be cajoled into making a tuba bag, if all the parts were already ready to go and all it needed was a zipper. I also remember a guy who used a small wheeled garbage can for his MW 182, with foam rubber padding. Not exactly sophisticated looking but it functioned. I think he even flew with that.

[bloke]

As far as "premium" bags are concerned...(and I've only chosen the California-style/quality clamshell ones)

I've only ever been in the "used" market.

The Miraphone 98 will NEVER be dragged around in a bag, and - that (appropriate) decision/attitude made me realize that all the rest of my equipment is equally precious...so (now) EVERYTHING has a hard case, and (though I'm not selling any of the bags) they are hanging (overhead) on a special rack that I made in an out-of-the-way corner of our master bath (c. 10' ceiling, so they're still a foot above the top of my head).

[the elephant]

I recently started a hard case rebuild thread and got laughed at because "No one uses hard cases anymore." Well, I do, and I think a person is a fool not to have a high-quality gig bag and hard case for every horn they own.

[bloke]

I recently started a hard case rebuild thread and got laughed at because "No one uses hard cases anymore." Well, I do, and I think a person is a fool not to have a high-quality gig bag and hard case for every horn they own.

Being lazy and having a few connections, I've managed to finagle mostly close to new condition molded or fiberglass or anvil style cases for low prices. I've rebuilt enough wood cases (trying to avoid spending money for cases when I've sold tubas to schools) to have figured out that it takes a whole lot of time and effort, and I could otherwise be working on instruments.

The one hard case that I've been unsuccessful in locating in a molded case and an affordable price that's not a bloated exterior size is for my f tuba. I finally gave up, went upstairs and grabbed my small Johnson fiberglass case to use with it. It's a bit heavy, but it's not bloated, it fits, and it's protective.

[the elephant]

I plan on making my own fiberglass case for my 186.

I have molded several complex structures from marine fiberglass kits over the years. (Example: I made a nifty "stealthy" subwoofer box for my 2003 Jeep that has a lot of internal space but that conforms to the center console shell and works quite well.)

I was also the case guy at the music store for many years because I was fast enough to make money at it. I like the work, too — mostly.

This summer I plan to make my own version of Joe Exley's Accord case. It will never look as nice as his and it will be heavier, but it will be backpackable and also be safe for under-bus use. I would not fly with it, even though it will be infinitely superior to one of those molded plastic and styrofoam cases that lots of tuba players cry about the airlines destroying.

Heck, it might even look okay, too. I would paint it with two-stage automotive paint/clear coat, but I am afraid it will just end up scratched and chipped, so I guess I need to learn how cello cases are finished. Or I need to buy a lot of rattle cans of flat black…

[bloke]

That's really cool, and I would be quite an admirer of yours for fashioning that, but the same case that I have for my F tuba would be an excellent fit for a 186. I would imagine that there are some of those floating around out around unused, people probably complaining about them being heavy, and honestly I bought my 6/4 Johnson and my 186/F tuba size Johnson case for only about a couple hundred bucks a piece, because they're no longer a fad, and are considered old school.

The wheels were too small, but I removed a little wheels and adapted the the wheel mounts to support axles for larger standout wheels.

The F tuba in the Johnson fiberglass certainly weighs less than fatbastard in its Jakob Winter, so...

[jonesbrass]

. I also remember a guy who used a small wheeled garbage can for his MW 182, with foam rubber padding. Not exactly sophisticated looking but it functioned. I think he even flew with that.

Wow . . . The visual I get with that description made my day. Doesn’t speak well for what you think of a tubas quality when you keep it in a garbage can . . .

[Mary Ann]

Yes but according to what he said, it worked. And you certainly can't complain about the cost.

[bloke]

I don't know...
A padded plastic garbage can is probably more respectful to a tuba than a high grade gunny sack with a thin layer of foam rubber.

[TomLukowicz]

A mod that should really be considered is the larger bell either from Yamaha directly or the Mack Brass copy. Makes a huge difference.

[Rick Denney]

A mod that should really be considered is the larger bell either from Yamaha directly or the Mack Brass copy. Makes a huge difference.

I agree. I played a guy’s 621 with a Yamaha larger bell and was impressed.

Rick “hasn’t tried the fit of the B&S in the 184’s hard case; hmmmm…” Denney

[bloke]

Some will remember that - back in the 1970s - it was a thing for west coast players to go to Fullerton, pick up an Olds O-99 bell, and have one of the oft-memorialized repair guys out there stick one of those bells on their model 184 Miraphone tubas.

I was even told by well-known student of Tommy Johnson that Mr.Johnson told them to take the factory bell off their new B&S Symphonie model F tuba, and replace it with a Miraphone model 85 bell...which they did.

the 184 - O-99 thing:
whatever... but don't most people buy those 184 tubas for their characteristic sound?

the larger pancake bell on a 621
OK...probably a ton easier than locating an 821, and - arguably - a 621 doesn't have much of a "characteristic sound" anyway

the Symphonie - 185 thing:
eek