Rudy 4345

[Sousaswag]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/374549727995?h ... R6iOzqjYYQ

Never seen one of these... In person or even online other than stock images. Seems to be a great price. Horn is in CA.

[arpthark]

I *think* this is the tuba that @bort2.0 was referring to a while ago re: "computer designed."

Never seen one, much less played one.

[Sousaswag]

Upon further inspection: I see bell damage.

However, probably not a deal breaker. Looks mighty similar to the HB 392. I don't know what pitch is like on this model.

There IS a make offer button. If I had the $$ and the need, I'd pick it up just because it's rare. YMMV.

[arpthark]

Valves look Bauerfeind/Gronitz-ish? If so, that's nice.

[Sousaswag]

Valves look Bauerfeind/Gronitz-ish? If so, that's nice.

I'm thinking they're NOT the MW/B&S big valves. Who makes 'em? No idea! They look similar to the HB's valves. I notice Gronitz pistons 1 and 4 are set further towards the bell than this cluster.

I'd love to play this tuba. Too bad I'm nowhere near CA!

[bort2.0]

There aren't many of these around, but they exist as both piston and rotary versions. I think @cjk has a piston 4345 and @erdickman has a rotary 4345.

As I understand it, it's modeled after the Conn CC that Bob Tucci took to Germany with him when he moved there years ago. I believe he took it around to many different makers to try and get it re-created or used as a basis for a new model. Anyway, the "tell" with the Conn CC and with the 4345 is the LOW ferrules on the bottom bow...



Bell damage is a right of passage with a Rudy Meinl. I forget exactly, but the way the bells are made, there's some inherent tension or something, and when something happens, it's going to take the opportunity to go ahead and give a nice little crumple (or worse). I'd be careful with a repaired Rudy bell if I didn't know who fixed it... doesn't take much to go back to it's crumple-memory if you haven't annealed it/etc...

The price in this ad is concerning, seems too low AND then best offer? Either someone needed out quickly, didn't know what they were selling, it was hot, or the CYA of selling as-is is obscuring a bigger issue with the rotor.

Visually though, it seems like a fine tuba and generally in good shape. If the bell was repaired well, valves are all good, and the rotor isn't messed up, I think it could have listed for $6500 and not taken long to sell. Much more than that, you'll start to get into territory where your money can buy a lot of different things, and you have more options. If it were in great used condition with no damage and sold by a reputable source, I'd say around $8,000. But for an eBay listing starting at $5200 and selling lower than that? Seems risky.

[LargeTuba]

Did they ever make a piston F tuba? Or did they slap pistons on any other models?

[cjk]

I have one of these. I am very very fond of it. I don’t know who actually made the valves, but they’re great. They slur like butter. The valves on mine have a bore of 18mm. The bell is 18 inches. Mine is very well in tune with itself and I’m very used to making it go. The lead pipe starts out pretty large but the bore is pretty small. I have had it since 2005. Mine is probably the last tuba I would ever sell.

A lot of folks seemed to not like these. The word “stuffy” was frequently used. I don’t think they were very popular. There IS a little bit of a learning curve on making it go.

The Brasswind sold these as the RM CCC or something like that. That was probably decades ago.

This model is still in the RM catalog.

[cjk]

Appears to be sold now. Congratulations to the buyer.

[cjk]

Did they ever make a piston F tuba? Or did they slap pistons on any other models?

There are other piston models.

Here’s a link to their catalog:

https://www.rudolf-meinl.de/fileadmin/t ... ospekt.pdf

[the elephant]

I know Bauerfeind used to be owned by Willson and then was bought out by Adams. I suppose Adams still owns the company.

Does anyone have contact info for Bauerfeind?

[bloke]

I've spent about two minutes with cjk's tuba... not enough time to learn my way around it.

I think I've played one real Donatelli with good valves and a couple of cutdowns made to be like them from B flat Conns. Those were nice-playing tubas.

[BuddyRogersMusic]

I know Bauerfeind used to be owned by Willson and then was bought out by Adams. I suppose Adams still owns the company.

Does anyone have contact info for Bauerfeind?

Howdy, Wade.
Adams did purchase Bauerfeind and you can reach them at info@adams.nl. Miel is great about answering emails. If you are seeking parts from them, let me know.

[BuddyRogersMusic]

Did they ever make a piston F tuba? Or did they slap pistons on any other models?

Yes, Rudi, Jr has made a piston F, the first being a one-off redesign of another 3+2 Eb that became Beth Wiese's horn. Lee Stofer has more details on how that came about. Rudi made a subsequent version circa 2008 that, in my opinion, didn't quite measure up to Beth's horn but it has been a long time since I played it.

Another poster was asking about valve sections that Rudi uses and these were not Bauerfind. I can't remember who he said made them but I believe the company was located somewhere around Frankfurt. They made piston sets for other models that are viewable in the RM catalog.

[cjk]

Did they ever make a piston F tuba? Or did they slap pistons on any other models?

Yes, Rudi, Jr has made a piston F, the first being a one-off redesign of another 3+2 Eb that became Beth Wiese's horn. Lee Stofer has more details on how that came about. Rudi made a subsequent version circa 2008 that, in my opinion, didn't quite measure up to Beth's horn but it has been a long time since I played it.

Another poster was asking about valve sections that Rudi uses and these were not Bauerfind. I can't remember who he said made them but I believe the company was located somewhere around Frankfurt. They made piston sets for other models that are viewable in the RM catalog.

Hi Chris, in the sentence above, does "They" refer to the Frankfurt company or Bauerfind?

Pic of the above mentioned RM piston F tuba:

http://www.davidbrubeck.com/wp-content/ ... 247426.jpg

[BuddyRogersMusic]

"They" would be the Frankfurt-based company of which I cannot remember their name. And yes, that's Beth and her much-loved F tuba.

[bort2.0]

That's a nice looking tuba, but a ridiculous picture that makes her look two feet tall, or makes the tuba look enormous.

[cjk]

That's a nice looking tuba, but a ridiculous picture that makes her look two feet tall, or makes the tuba look enormous.

Yeah, I was looking for the best/biggest picture of the tuba in question. It didn't want to display inline with img for some reason.

[BuddyRogersMusic]

If you have FB, go to her page and listen to her play. It's a fantastic horn and she's a wonderful player, too.

[bort2.0]

I just re-read a long email I got from @Lee Stofer a few years ago with a Rudy Meinl piston tuba history lesson... Which I learned because Lee had a piston CC Rudy Perantucci model CC for sale a few years ago, and I asked if this was the same as the 4345.

I had a few things confused above... Here is an abbreviated version that I hope Lee doesn't mind me sharing, but I think this is important history to document and share. Maybe everybody knows this already?

* Bob Tucci approached Peter Hirsbrunner in the 80s to have him try and copy his Helleberg Conn CC. To Bob's dissatisfaction, the result was that a .750 piston valve set was on the rotary HB-2 body, and called the HB-2P.
* In the late 80s, Bob took the Helleberg Conn to Rudy Meinl, and had him very closely copy his Conn CC, down to some very small details. Lee said that it was as close to the original as you could get without having the original tooling. Unlike the HB, this was even made with a custom built .710 piston valve set, same as the Conn used. The result was called the Perantucci model CC. There were about 12 of them made... General reception was tepid, people all thought it was too small in the bore and overall. This was the early 90s, and the 6/4 tubas were gaining popularity, like the 2165, Nirschl York, the early Neptunes... so focus on a smaller tuba, as nice as it was, just didn't exist. Lee called it "The Rudy nobody knows about." Which is unfortunate, because it sounds like it was an excellent instrument, just not enormous.
* In the late 80s and early 90s, Rudy decided he wanted to make a piston CC tuba to sell in the American market. That is what the 4345 was all about, and designed to be. It is not a copy of Bob's tuba, although I think I do see some similarities between the two.
* Wwbw was the distributor for Rudy tubas, and they were not very good at selling them. The 4345 was also largely a failure to launch. To make matters worse, wwbw went belly up, and sold their remaining inventory of the Rudy's at fire sale prices. After that, Rudy no longer was interested in the American market.

So, that's the unfortunate history of piston Rudy tubas in the United States.