Holton 345 B-flat bell compared to Miraphone 98 B-flat bell

[bloke]

Height, flare diameter, and small end diameter are all identical.





It's too dark outside to get pic with good lighting...huge storm (possible 70 mph winds...??) is crossing the Mississippi River - right now, so the sky is prematurely darkened.

[bloke]

Interesting.

I think the 190 bell that was mated to the short action Holton I once owned was possibly quite similar. I believe that was mounted without the need for any trimming.

[bloke]

Interesting.

I think the 190 bell that was mated to the short action Holton I once owned was possibly quite similar. I believe that was mounted without the need for any trimming.

' could be the same mandrel, but - this time - it was factory-mounted on a B-flat tuba - one which offers a pretty good scale.

For your Conn 2XJ/36J peeps' misc. knowledge banks, your bottom bow large-ends are too small to accept 345, 98, and same small-end sized bells.

Anyway...If someone is interested in slicking out a trashed-bell 345 with a new bell - and one with a nifty kranz - this Miraphone one should do...

...and it's become pretty difficult to buy parts from Buffet (ex: model 2165 Holton-sized bell...if they are still willing to make those).

[matt g]

I’m pretty sure that the ~19” 190 bell was for the CC version, but Chuck Guzis slapped it on a 3V BBb carcass after removing the BF setup. He had to lengthen the MTS inner stockings some. Otherwise that tuba had solid pitch, as in the F below the staff was within 5 cents or so and the D in the staff was flat per the usual.

Mandrels are expensive, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they reused it. Most of the 190 CC issues were likely due to cutting down the bows and branches of the BBb.

Good point about it being a near match to the older 2165 bell. Useful to have a backup plan.

[the elephant]

Height, flare diameter, and small end diameter are all identical.

"Identical" as in "looks like the same part," or "identical" as in actually interchangeable? If the latter, that opens up some interesting possibilities…

It's too dark outside to get pic with good lighting...huge storm (possible 70 mph winds...??) is crossing the Mississippi River - right now, so the sky is prematurely darkened.

I'm in Cleveland at DSU tonight. I was out in the mess with some of the DSU low brass studio having pizza. In addition to two very nice pies, we got gobs of hail, some broken windows, power-almost-outages, and dozens of EAS alarms shrieking on everyone's phones: SHELTER IN PLACE. TORNADO ON THE GROUND IN YOUR AREA.

My recital rehearsal went well, and Tuba-Euph Day 2023 ought to be a great success tomorrow. I'm turning in because I need as much beauty sleep as my fugly butt can get.

Unlike recitals in the past where I was more or less compelled to do them for one reason or another (and you know how much I hate doing recitals, which affects how I [don't] prepare for them) —

• This one will actually be fun to play
• I *want* to do it
• It is going to go very well
• I'm excited about it (a first for me)

I just hope my car has not been destroyed by hail. I was picked up for the pizza hang, and the rais was soo terrible to go out to the Accord to look for damage. I hope I don't have to file an insurance claim on Monday…

Oh, boy… lots of first responder sirens whizzing past my hotel. I wonder if that was a tornado that passed us and broke the windows. I hope everyone is okay…

Goodnight, y'all.

[bloke]

The worst passed south of Greenwood and to the northeast, so that's probably the one that caught Cleveland.

Another one hit Taylor south of Oxford - where Micah lives, and then skirted underneath Oxford.
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I would say that they are interchangeable, and their bell curvature doesn't look all that much different.
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As far as your car is concerned, I hope you sprayed plenty of hail repellent on it.

[the elephant]

A bad tornado missed Yazoo by about 25 miles (as the crow flies), and hit Silver City, where everyone was rushed to the hospital in Rolling Fork, which was then flattened by a tornado, and now all the patients from that part of the Delta are being transported to Baptist in Yazoo. My wife says the sirens are like something out of a mid-1970s disaster film.

Pretty grim stuff.

Also, I hear tell of a bad one in Columbus, Ohio, but I'm not near a TV, so I don't know.

Stay safe Joe.

[the elephant]

As a followup to this info:

We are okay. There were at least 21 killed, and many were injured. My wife and cats and home are fine. I am fine. I can't go home until about 6:00 or 7:00 tonight, and I have friends who were affected by this, so today will be stressful, but I have a lot of teaching and playing to do, and I hope that it will distract me enough.

I will post about this tonight when I get home.

And now, OFF TO THE RACES!

[YorkNumber3.0]

.

[bloke]

Glad all are well and hope that continues.

Regarding the bell…

I wonder where else this bell used on the 98 is or was used? Was it used on the big, monster, Yorkish prototype? The 90 BBb. Or CC? Other? None of the above?

I do like the proportions of the 98 bell.

If anything, it would have been the C. The-B flat version bell is elongated and some of the B-flat bells were only 17-1/3 in. - depending on when they were made and for whom. (I have owned a B-flat 90). I have played a reissued model 90 C (with smaller-bodied and faster rotors - 186-size rotors scooped out to 21.2 mm bore) and the tuning was much less wonky than with those that some of us encountered back in the early 1970s. The reissues didn't seem to sell, and seemed to disappear as fast as they appeared. If they were to offer a York style C thing, it seems to me they could start with that and slap some 1291 pistons on it, but they would also need to figure out how to shorten the mouthpipe and add length elsewhere, but Miraphone is surely up to that challenge.
All of this having been said, they may have cleverly avoided this market as it has been gluted with cheapies, and (possibly controversial question) are a lot large percentage of consumers of these more interested in being seen with something that is this shape and size then having one that plays really well - and with good tuning?

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I opened up a thread about the Mississippi damage and casualties for others to flesh out with information, links, or maps - that perhaps they will have touched up with lines and arrows.

Besides Humphreys County - which is just north of Yazoo City, there was some extremely severe weather around Taylor, Mississippi - which is just south of Oxford and Ole Miss. I haven't heard reports of damage or casualties there, but that doesn't mean that there were none.

[dp]

Who has been making bells that size for years, and why wouldn't Miraphone buy from them?

[bloke]

This isn't one of those thick B&S made bells, Dale.

[LargeTuba]

There is A bell maker in Germany that makes 6/4 bells. I don’t think Nirschl spins their own bells.