Sellmansberger Mouthpieces

[russiantuba]

I currently use the following setup...both recommended by Joe himself.

Gronitz PF 125: Sellmansberger Solo, #0 backbore, WM 32.6 C4 Style Rim with Gold Titanium plating
Miraphone 1291CC: Sellmansberger Symphony, Symphony Euro Backbore, WM 32.6 C4 Style RIm

I originally bought a Symphony in 2013, and my professor hated it. I will admit, it takes a couple weeks to learn a new mouthpiece. I had played a GW Baer before that and a Hammond XL "Geib" style. I returned it, but there was something I liked about it. I ended up buying another, and I was playing on a Stofer Geib at the time, and I liked having the blokepiece, but wasn't hearing much of a difference between the two. I should mention I bought the XL shank, and later bought the actual symphony shank but knowing me, I probably never tried it.

Fast forward a few years--I was in a hall where my Geib sounded like a big donut sound, and I never did like the rim of it. I went on an expensive mouthpiece hunt. Remember the blokepiece I had, it had been on loan to 2 students over the years. I was close to the sound I wanted, so I bought a blokepiece solo #2 backbore with extender. It wasn't quiet it, so before contacting bloke to return it I decided to try it on one of my students. He plays a King 2341 and sounded pretty good with the Symphony, but this piece made his high range sing and project while giving even more control to the low range. At the same time, I decided to test the symphony in my CC, and it was the exact balance of projection, core, etc I was looking for. It also had the same richness and allowed me significant color changes.

14 months ago, I was listening to some faculty recital recordings, I noticed my 35 year old Miraphone C4 had the same bit of spice lacking from it. I contacted Bloke, where he recommended my setup, and I really like it. It offers the control and the comfort I desire.

[Rick Denney]

I use an Orchestra Grand cup with a Symphony backbore on the Hirsbrunner, an Orchestra Grand cup and Orchestra Grand backbore on the Holton, and an original Solo on the B&S. The three-piece mouthpieces have a No. 2 Medium Narrow rim of 33.2mm diameter.

I used a two-piece Symphony in the Holton that I used before Joe came out with the Orchestra Grand mouthpiece. That replaced a Stofer Geib that was quite good but didn’t give me the same low register, which had replaced a PT-48 which was also quite good but not quite as focused and clear.

The Solo replaced a Mike Finn MF-4 in the F tuba, which was excellent but for the low register power. That replaced a PT-64 which was the standard of F tuba mouthpieces for a long time.

Rick “sticking with what works” Denney

[Levaix]

Mirafone 186 CC (Blokespecial): Imperial cup, standard shank, goldkote Profundo #2 rim 33.2mm

I have the Imperial with the Profundo rim. It is awesome. Great combination for My Miraclone 186.

A bit of threadomancy here but I wanted to thank you guys for mentioning this combo. I have an Imperial I bought for an old Holton Eb that I haven't been using as well as the little ring extender. Gave this a shot on my Sonora B&S stencil last night and initial results are very promising. Lots of clarity and still a big sound; it's just hard to tell if the "improvement" is only in the context of my living room acoustics. With how things are I won't really know for sure until I can bring it to a rehearsal or play in a larger hall. :/

Either way, @bloke I may be calling you soon to demo a couple additional components.

[Doc]

A bit of threadomancy here but I wanted to thank you guys for mentioning this combo. I have an Imperial I bought for an old Holton Eb that I haven't been using as well as the little ring extender. Gave this a shot on my Sonora B&S stencil last night and initial results are very promising. Lots of clarity and still a big sound; it's just hard to tell if the "improvement" is only in the context of my living room acoustics. With how things are I won't really know for sure until I can bring it to a rehearsal or play in a larger hall. :/

Either way, @bloke I may be calling you soon to demo a couple additional components.

The acoustics at my house are lackluster, for sure. I''ve made a number of recordings and Youtube videos on an iPhone that provides a sound quality that is less than ideal. I do have a decent microphone for recording, and that helps, but that occasionally, I'll go outside and use the iPhone without acoustical interference. Works pretty well.

[iiipopes]

The spacer is especially useful to tailor the response of the mouthpiece, and being plastic, can be trimmed in depth as desired to get the player's preferred balance of tone production and response, as I did. Stock was too shallow, Profundo was too deep, a Spacer trimmed to about half was just right.

[Levaix]

A bit of threadomancy here but I wanted to thank you guys for mentioning this combo. I have an Imperial I bought for an old Holton Eb that I haven't been using as well as the little ring extender. Gave this a shot on my Sonora B&S stencil last night and initial results are very promising. Lots of clarity and still a big sound; it's just hard to tell if the "improvement" is only in the context of my living room acoustics. With how things are I won't really know for sure until I can bring it to a rehearsal or play in a larger hall. :/

Either way, @bloke I may be calling you soon to demo a couple additional components.

The acoustics at my house are lackluster, for sure. I''ve made a number of recordings and Youtube videos on an iPhone that provides a sound quality that is less than ideal. I do have a decent microphone for recording, and that helps, but that occasionally, I'll go outside and use the iPhone without acoustical interference. Works pretty well.

Out of curiosity what benefits did you perceive using the extended Imperial on your Miraphone (as opposed to the Symphony)?

[bloke]

Were my only tuba a (current design) 450mm bell 186C (or B-flat) - and I played it in community bands, etc., as a "foundational/bass" instrument for a large ensemble, I would probably use the Symphony cup.

The vintage 186 tubas (thinner wall, handmade, smaller bell diameter) tend to naturally offer a bit more "zing" in their resonance, and - if someone were seeking to have those natural sonic characteristics brought out, rather than suppressed - the Imperial cup would probably more assist in that objective. As an example, were someone to own multiple tubas (ie. not just a lap sousaphone, but - additionally - something like a vintage 420mm bell 186) - and wanted something to use in a symphonic low brass section that offered a bit more zing (and some might recall my silly Borodin brief rehearsal video), the Imperial mouthpiece might be a good choice...

...but Bill might have a different perspective...

[Doc]

Out of curiosity what benefits did you perceive using the extended Imperial on your Miraphone (as opposed to the Symphony)?

...stuff...

...but Bill might have a different perspective...

Joe pretty much expressed my observations. The Symphony can bring life to an instrument that can benefit from a little more bowl action (Solo does that well, especially when you stretch it out), but this tuba is very lively and doesn’t benefit from the types of color and frequency enhancement the Symphony can provide. The Imperial has the funnelish sonic attributes that bring out/enhances the already-present liveliness in the 186.

I, too, think that the Symphony might be better suited to a new-style 186. And the Symphony is an absolute slamdunk on a 188. And it was pretty darned shiny 6/4 lap sousaphones. On rotary BBb tubas, I tend to like a stretched Solo, but the Symphony seems to work very well on big piston BBb’s. I’ve tried the Wessex Prokofiev a couple of times, and the mouthpieces I like best on it were the Symphony and the Sidey Stainless Helleberg.

I’m sure there is science that can evaluate cup shape/depth and extrapolate data regarding what frequencies might generally be enhanced or suppressed, but matching all that to the needs of any given instrument and any given player still requires testing. And with how Mid-South Music does trials/returns, you can test without fear.

[jtm]

Having access to all this stuff that I've tried has TAUGHT ME (and I should have known this from doubling on 9-feet-long B-flat instruments with much smaller mouthpieces) that the concept of "keeping the same rim for every tuba" is bunk.
If a player's face is so inflexible that there is some sort of immovable slot (dent?) where a mouthpiece fits, there's something going on well beyond the importance of "rim consistency". ....

I just heard an old Arnold Jacobs talk in which he said he considers it important to keep the same rim size, and he demoed a baritone mouthpiece (on a baritone) that had the same rim size as whatever tuba mouthpiece he was using.

But I'd rather believe bloke's conclusion. If nothing else, it's a lot more practical. I'm not going to have a trumpet mouthpiece made with a 32mm rim.

[Levaix]

After playing for a few hours yesterday and switching back and forth between several mouthpieces and configurations on my Sonora BBb, I've come to the conclusive truth: I need to practice more tuba before worrying about equipment.

Realistically I'm just not a good enough tuba player to conclusively say which mouthpiece worked best and why. Notes below. I think when rehearsals open up again I'm going to have to A-B test these every half rehearsal over the course of a couple weeks and see what others' impressions are from the other side of the bell. I'll be interested to see if these observations hold up.

Symphony (2 piece style): Good all around. Joe's comment about preferring equipment that plays easily and "gets out of the way" rings very true with this design. If I had to say anything bad it would be that it's consistent to the point of being boring, but that would imply I dislike it.

Imperial with extended rim: So there are several problems with my test setup.
1. I'm using euro shank (bought for my Eb) and I should really be using American on my BBb.
2. It's a three piece style, but the only three piece style rim I have is delrin.
3. I'm using the extender ring rather than an integrated profundo rim.
As noted by others, this combo definitely added more "zing" than the Symphony. I think the oddities of my setup meant this wasn't an entirely fair test. While hypothetically the old style rims still fit on this mouthpiece, I did notice a difference in sound and response between my old style #2 and the new style delrin #2. That combined with the spacer and the larger shank seemed to cause some resonance tendencies I wouldn't have necessarily expected, but it still wasn't bad. Maybe when rehearsals start up again I'll order the proper components and revisit in the future.

And what the heck, might as well round out the list what what I tried...

PT 88: This one never quite did it for me, but heck if it's not better than I remember! The sound from this one reminded me of my teacher and tuba studio in undergrad. Big sound, hard to break up. Not sure if it projects enough with this horn.

MB 88: Canadian Brass variant of the above. It's like if someone took the PT 88 and slightly "Helleberg'd" it. This is what I've been playing for the past couple years and I think it still came out on top. Not quite as full as the PT 88, and not as consistently round as the Symphony. When I'm cheating on air I don't like it as much as either of those. When played properly it comes alive with some crazy resonance; there were sympathetic frequencies going off all over my living room.

[bloke]

My 5/4 C instrument is remarkably resonant, flexible, and sports very few tuning issues. I lucked into an extremely nice one used, and before the prices skyrocketed.
In other threads, I’ve stated that tuning rates 1 through 5 and flexibility rates 6 through 10, when I pick a tuba for myself.
OK...The innate type of sound the instrument naturally produces ~IS~ of interest to me, admittedly. Lap sousaphones tend to be pretty squirrelly in the intonation department, and - well - tend to sound like somewhat like sousaphones...so I’m pleased with what I have...but its low range – though very accessible (effortless and resonant) - also tends to be a bit “hot“.
Long ago - with this tuba, I settled on the Symphony cup, a tall rim - which nicely addresses the “hot” issue, yet avoiding sousaphone-like resonance - and the in-between shank size, as some receivers made today (including the one on this particular tuba) seem to be noncommittal - by “shooting the middle“.
We’re phasing out the “P” shank, because so few seem to order it…but it is available (only way it’s offered) on the “student” model Symphony under-part (silver-plated brass cup-shank) that I sell...so I’m using that “student/economy” under-part with a tall rim on that particular tuba.

[Steve Inman]

Resurrecting an old-ish thread which has some good info.

AND to ask -- IS there a site with a catalog or list of all of the options, with a brief description of the various parts? I've found and followed several links in this thread, butI seem to keep finding even MORE variations people are discussing.

Could Joe [or any Blokepiece fan] steer me to something like this, if it exists?

Thanks!

[JRaymo]

Resurrecting an old-ish thread which has some good info.

AND to ask -- IS there a site with a catalog or list of all of the options, with a brief description of the various parts? I've found and followed several links in this thread, butI seem to keep finding even MORE variations people are discussing.

Could Joe [or any Blokepiece fan] steer me to something like this, if it exists?

Thanks!

I think there is info on the houser mouthpiece site. He is the maker of these but you can also buy them direct from Joe. A better deal for Joe if you buy from him direct.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bloke]

Send me an email from my signature, and I'll make a nice chart and post it in the businesses forum here when I get back from this gig this weekend. It won't have those contours on Dave's website, but it might have some verbal descriptions that might actually be more helpful.

Two new ones are coming out that are silver plated brass one piece very very soon. I'm playing one of them this weekend.

[Steve Inman]

Send me an email from my signature, and I'll make a nice chart and post it in the businesses forum here when I get back from this gig this weekend. It won't have those contours on Dave's website, but it might have some verbal descriptions that might actually be more helpful.

Two new ones are coming out that are silver plated brass one piece very very soon. I'm playing one of them this weekend.

Thanks Joe. Will do.
And as suggested, I went back to the Houser site and did more looking, and did find the helpful diagrams there, which I'm studying now. Earlier, I jumped right to the specific mpc components and missed this: https://housermouthpiece.net/shop/spec-sheet-pdfs/

I'll add my specific interests in my email. And the reason I posted here to revive this thread, was because personal experiences with various tubas and mpc choices are helpful info to review, at least for me. So I wanted to give it a large bump.

Cheers.

[bloke]

Thanks

[JRaymo]

We’re phasing out the “P” shank, because so few seem to order it…but it is available (only way it’s offered) on the “student” model Symphony under-part (silver-plated brass cup-shank) that I sell...so I’m using that “student/economy” under-part with a tall rim on that particular tuba.

That “P” shank thanks to your advice is what made the imperial not just great but the best mouthpiece I’ve ever used on my Willson 3400. Prior to this I’ve used a Giddings original Baer F with a modified rim. I love this mouthpiece but for it to ever be as good as the imperial I would probably need one of those AGR or have Ivan make me another one with the shank to match this “P” shank. Really opened up the lower register.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk