NEVER enough valves on a rotary instrument !!!

[bloke]

screenshot from fb "frankentubas" forum...

Just as a reminder, an elementary school child's $5 plastic soprano recorder features 9 holes, with 8 fingers responsible for administering to those 9 holes.

[LeMark]

Where are getting the valve from?

When I warned to add a valve to my king, I lucked into a slightly beat up miraphone 4 valve euph, removed the 4th valve, patched the gap, and wound up with a 3 valve euph I sold for the same price I paid for it.

Is it going to be a long half step valve?

[bort2.0]

Y'all said "no" to me adding a 5th valve to my Alex. Should I jump straight to adding a 6th valve?

[the elephant]

You can add a 6th but always omit the 5th.

Instead, install a 7th valve in its place. Make it a flat whole step and rig it up like a 5th. It can be your little secret. You can even call it a 5th valve. No one has to know.

[bloke]

Admittedly, that would never have occurred to me.
I should have consulted with you first.
=================================
This is a c. 1960's instrument - I feel quite certain.

It is not "1920's high pitch", but it was (fairly obviously) built as "European high pitch".

Even after the lengthening that I've done to it (including adding a 5th valve WITHOUT shortening the mouthpipe), the A=440 "pull" is still considerable.

Thus, I'm thinking of installing it in the same place as some of the newer *M-W (B&S factory) F tubas...LAST and IN-LINE.

If I shorten the main slide ferrules - and do NOT shorten any of the main slide tubing, I believe I will STILL have more than a thumbnail of A=440 "pull" and - if not - the fail-safe is the mouthpiece receiver, as it "hangs out" from the instrument somewhat, and the small end of the mouthpipe can be trimmed by at least a half an inch...

..."but won't that affect the sound...!?!?"

yes...The pitch will be higher.
__________________________________________
M-W 6460 F tuba: "6th" valve is (nearly) last.
*

==========================================

Y'all said "no" to me adding a 5th valve to my Alex. Should I jump straight to adding a 6th valve?

Who is "Y'all"...??

Remove valves/circuits #'s 3 and 4, shorten that ridiculous mouthpipe, lengthen the main slide by the same amount, install an epic trigger on the lengthened main slide (in order to be able to again play some more of the chromatic pitches) and lighten it up for racing.

[the elephant]

Talking to bort.

[bort2.0]

The idea for adding a 5th to my Alex came from Lee Stofer, before I bought it.

He would have replaced the leadpipe and put the new Alex valve in line with that, ahead of valve #1.

I'm sure the result would be great. Maybe not necessary though!

[bloke]

Talking to bort.

not to worry...

I'm responding to the conch shell.

[bloke]

The idea for adding a 5th to my Alex came from Lee Stofer, before I bought it.

He would have replaced the leadpipe and put the new Alex valve in line with that, ahead of valve #1.

I'm sure the result would be great. Maybe not necessary though!

Any tuba (just in my opinion) needs a spot-on low F.
If the bugle length is C, either the 1st or 4th slide needs to pull out far enough to play F in tune...and that slide needs to be really easily accessible.
Most rotary tubas' #1 slides are not long enough to accomplish that, and most rotary tubas' #4 slides are inaccessible. The 186 is an exception.

With more that composers and arrangers (who obviously aren't Mahler, and can't hear things in their heads) relying in digital playback (combined with them hearing tuba players screwing around backstage playing below the normally written range of the instrument), the more they are going to write below the normally written range of the instrument (D and beyond...though Prokofiev wrote some very low things from time-to-time).

[bort2.0]

Low F is 124, with no slide work. Locks in quite well, very solid. No low range crap.

Weird in my fingers. But it sounds great.

No fingering for a true low Db. False tones are ... Not my thing, but can maybe be learned. I'd prefer to have a true low Db option. The note does come up, and I hate faking it.

[bloke]

C tuba circuits 1 + 2 are a few inches too long for a GG whole-step circuit, but - when played loudly - the pitch naturally rises to "in tune".

Quite soft, long, and sustained...lipping up a 1-2-4 "low F" can become a chore, after a while...

I guess it also depends on how sharp a C tuba's #1 valve circuit can be pushed in. If normal tuning for that circuit is "out" then 1-2-4 can work out really well, with the #1 circuit slide pushed in as short as possible.

===========================================

To the original topic:

Pushing a few buttons is not difficult. Even with bass guitar (one of the world's easiest-to-play instruments) at least five fingers (me: six) are involved in playing it, as well as incessant "shifts".

Slide pulling/pushing can be distracting, can tend to cause tension, and (with some top-level players in youtube) I've watched #1 slides move nonsensically/habitually - having nothing to do with the valve combinations being depressed nor the pitches being played.
Six buttons (and no slide-pulling) is easy...

...and mashing six on this instrument, six on that instrument, four on that other compensating instrument, four on yet another compensating instrument, four on a non-compensating instrument, five on yet one more instrument, five on even another instrument, and three on a couple of other instruments...That's far easier than maintaining competency on (all of these at once) flute/piccolo, oboe/english horn, clarinet/bass clarinet, soprano/alto/tenor/baritone saxophone, bassoon...as several of my friends (who play touring Broadway shows) are able to do.

[Casca Grossa]

screenshot from fb "frankentubas" forum...

Just as a reminder, an elementary school child's $5 plastic soprano recorder features 9 holes, with 8 fingers responsible for administering to those 9 holes.

If I were you, do not get this silver plated too thickly. A 6th valve plus too much silver will cause the horn not to resonate.

[bloke]

UPDATE:
Eva (at Miraphone) to the rescue !!!
They have a nice USED rotor assembly (the very size I need) that they are offering to sell me.

If I were you, do not get this silver plated too thickly. A 6th valve plus too much silver will cause the horn not to resonate.

Aaoo Koay, Moate... Oeei haope it resonites...

[Ricardo]

Yep, never enough
I have am adding a 6th valve to an Eb

[bloke]

Yep, never enough
I have am adding a 6th valve to an Eb

[bloke]

I got my (hopefully, final revision of my) order sent off yesterday.

I scanned my own hand-written chicken-scratch, and Ms. Eva is having to deal with it.

I tried to buy a long (like 120 -150 mm long) piece of nickel finger-paddle hinge tubing from them, but they only make it 40mm long...so I'll get that elsewhere...or drill my own on my crappy lathe.

[bloke]

Y'all said "no" to me adding a 5th valve to my Alex. Should I jump straight to adding a 6th valve?

If I had taken all of the advice ever given to me (regarding my various instruments) to "leave well-enough alone", they would all only be (well...) well-enough.

The easiest thing in the world to tell someone else is that they and/or their stuff is "good enough".

bloke "A little joke in our per-service orchestra low brass section (whenever one of us has a solo or soli line without the rest of us) is to ask that person, 'so...Are you goin' with that...??' "

[Ricardo]

Finished!

[bloke]

A 4+2 system is really great, as long as a tubas' various circuits' overtone series are all well in-tune with themselves (ie. no slide-pulling required).

That having been said, there are still two thumbs available (possibly, for #1 and #5 slide triggers).

[LeMark]

wow, that looks amazing. honestly, if I had a 6 valve tuba, I think I would rather have a 5+1 instead of 4+2, but I'm sure others would disagree