Conn 36K #1 slide flip

[arpthark]

I am getting a handful of things done to my 1970s-era 36K:

- "flip" #1 slide so that it is adjustable by the left hand
- add water key to bottom of #1 circuit
- new felts/corks
- new bell tenon screw (one had popped off before purchase and was nowhere to be found)

No pics or anything (yet), but with a few outdoor gigs coming up, I wanted this thing to be as ensemble-ready as possible.

[Kirley]

During the #1 flip, you might consider shortening that circuit a touch so you can push for a proper C in the staff. Take it off the bottom of the loop if possible so as to maintain maximum pull.

It’ll be a bit of a dance to empty a first circuit spit valve without wearing it all. But I’m guessing you’ve considered that. I prefer pull and dump for that circuit.

[arpthark]

During the #1 flip, you might consider shortening that circuit a touch so you can push for a proper C in the staff. Take it off the bottom of the loop if possible so as to maintain maximum pull.

It’ll be a bit of a dance to empty a first circuit spit valve without wearing it all. But I’m guessing you’ve considered that. I prefer pull and dump for that circuit.

Ah, shoot. I didn't think about that. I think (??) C is pretty close all the way in though. I'd have to do some testing, and it's currently sitting about 60 miles away waiting to get worked on.

[iiipopes]

Here's my advice, which has served me well for decades:
1) Don't flip it. Have your tech make the upper 1st valve loop into a moveable slide with proper ferrules and inner tubas like the lower 1st valve loop and the upper 1st valve loop on most concert tubas. This retains the lower 1st valve slide to fine tune the circuit.
2) Then trim the upper 1st valve outer tubes so the slide doesn't stick out any further than it did before so the souzy will fit in its case.
3) Then trim the lower 1st valve outer tubes so when playing Eb and Ab the upper loop is pulled about 5/8 inch so you can shove for second space C.
4) Then you can pull so 1+3 and 1+2+3 is in tune.
5) This modification presupposes that the player pulls and sets 3 so that 2+3 is in tune.
6) Add extra water keys to the lower 1st valve slide and the 3rd slide because water can condense anywhere at anytime in any weather. A little water on your front is the price we pay for a proper souzy. Work on the technique of pivoting the bugle of the souzy up and away with the shoulder as a fulcrum and more efficient draining, and have the water keys serviced regularly to minimize splatter.
I have done these modifications to every souzy I have played for decades, and it has cured almost all the intonation quirks and eliminated water issues of all reasonable souzys. "Real" Conn souzys are most amenable to this treatment because of the comfortable position of the upper 1st valve loop to the left wrist to ride throttle on the slide. PM me your email address and I'll send you pix of the souzy I have now, showing the modifications, which I sent to Lee Stofer on my commission of a rebuilt "real" 36K.

[arpthark]

Here's my advice, which has served me well for decades:
1) Don't flip it. Have your tech make the upper 1st valve loop into a moveable slide with proper ferrules and inner tubas like the lower 1st valve loop and the upper 1st valve loop on most concert tubas. This retains the lower 1st valve slide to fine tune the circuit.
2) Then trim the upper 1st valve outer tubes so the slide doesn't stick out any further than it did before so the souzy will fit in its case.
3) Then trim the lower 1st valve outer tubes so when playing Eb and Ab the upper loop is pulled about 5/8 inch so you can shove for second space C.
4) Then you can pull so 1+3 and 1+2+3 is in tune.
5) This modification presupposes that the player pulls and sets 3 so that 2+3 is in tune.
6) Add extra water keys to the lower 1st valve slide and the 3rd slide because water can condense anywhere at anytime in any weather. A little water on your front is the price we pay for a proper souzy. Work on the technique of pivoting the bugle of the souzy up and away with the shoulder as a fulcrum and more efficient draining, and have the water keys serviced regularly to minimize splatter.
I have done these modifications to every souzy I have played for decades, and it has cured almost all the intonation quirks and eliminated water issues of all reasonable souzys. "Real" Conn souzys are most amenable to this treatment because of the comfortable position of the upper 1st valve loop to the left wrist to ride throttle on the slide. PM me your email address and I'll send you pix of the souzy I have now, showing the modifications, which I sent to Lee Stofer on my commission of a rebuilt "real" 36K.

Thanks Scott, that's quite the list. If I was doing more than the occasional outdoor gig with this thing then I would consider some of those more particular modifications regarding the lower #1 slide, but I am going to be happy just to be able to pull 1 to get 1+3 in tune -- as low C is much more common in the rep I am playing than C in the staff.

Yes, by flip, I meant that my repairman is removing the inner slide from the bottom of the circuit and transplanting them to the top so it is adjustable by the left hand. Not actually flipping the tubing around.

A water key on #3 slide is a good idea.

[iiipopes]

Here's my advice, which has served me well for decades:
1) Don't flip it. Have your tech make the upper 1st valve loop into a moveable slide with proper ferrules and inner tubas like the lower 1st valve loop and the upper 1st valve loop on most concert tubas. This retains the lower 1st valve slide to fine tune the circuit.
2) Then trim the upper 1st valve outer tubes so the slide doesn't stick out any further than it did before so the souzy will fit in its case.
3) Then trim the lower 1st valve outer tubes so when playing Eb and Ab the upper loop is pulled about 5/8 inch so you can shove for second space C.
4) Then you can pull so 1+3 and 1+2+3 is in tune.
5) This modification presupposes that the player pulls and sets 3 so that 2+3 is in tune.
6) Add extra water keys to the lower 1st valve slide and the 3rd slide because water can condense anywhere at anytime in any weather. A little water on your front is the price we pay for a proper souzy. Work on the technique of pivoting the bugle of the souzy up and away with the shoulder as a fulcrum and more efficient draining, and have the water keys serviced regularly to minimize splatter.
I have done these modifications to every souzy I have played for decades, and it has cured almost all the intonation quirks and eliminated water issues of all reasonable souzys. "Real" Conn souzys are most amenable to this treatment because of the comfortable position of the upper 1st valve loop to the left wrist to ride throttle on the slide. PM me your email address and I'll send you pix of the souzy I have now, showing the modifications, which I sent to Lee Stofer on my commission of a rebuilt "real" 36K.

Thanks Scott, that's quite the list. If I was doing more than the occasional outdoor gig with this thing then I would consider some of those more particular modifications regarding the lower #1 slide, but I am going to be happy just to be able to pull 1 to get 1+3 in tune -- as low C is much more common in the rep I am playing than C in the staff.

Yes, by flip, I meant that my repairman is removing the inner slide from the bottom of the circuit and transplanting them to the top so it is adjustable by the left hand. Not actually flipping the tubing around.

A water key on #3 slide is a good idea.

First, I also only play my souzy for occasional outdoor gigs with my community band. I am the only tuba/souzy this season. Remember that the foundation of the band is the tuba/souzy. The foundation must be in tune whatever it takes. That means all tuba/souzy players must be in tune, whatever it takes, addressing hardware, mouthpiece, embouchure, playing fundamentals. Second, to that end, I understood exactly what you meant by "flipping." My response: you need both ends of the 1st valve circuit to be adjustable: top loop for intonation (or more precisely, proper resonance of intonation for consistent tone without having to constantly lip up or down), and the bottom loop for fine tuning the entire circuit for reason #2 above, among others. Forgive me, but it is the responsibility of the foundation of the band to do everything to properly support the band, whether indoors or outdoors. Outdoors is actually more difficult to support the band properly, due to weather vagaries, among other reasons. That is why it is important for all 3-valve souzy players who take their craft with responsibility to do all the modifications listed above. And if anybody has any other ideas I have not thought of, I am open to incorporation of the ideas.

[arpthark]

Yikes, now you've made me feel irresponsible for lipping up C in the staff.

[bloke]

I wish my Pan American (14K with a 36k rebuilt valve set with an added upper #1 slide) were finished, but I have the equivalent of three pretty good size trailer loads of repairs for various schools, so I'm chained to the bench re-re-re-re-repairing toe-up stuff.

Also - as much as I would like to get that thing done, I've got other projects for myself which are probably ahead of it, including the crazy B flat bass trombone 4+2 cimbasso project, which is actually important because of an agreement I've got with a particular orchestra.

Someone actually GAVE me a really nice condition Jupiter fiberglass. Beggars can't be choosers, but man... (ok... I've said enough.)

I wish I could magically turn it into a King.
.

[iiipopes]

I wish I could magically turn it into a King.

Good projection, grainy if pushed.

[bloke]

(I only use a sousaphone for grainy.)

[arpthark]

Should one avoid grainy sousaphones if one has a gluten allergy?

[bloke]

That's pretty corny.

[iiipopes]

Should one avoid grainy sousaphones if one has a gluten allergy?

Any reason is good. Seriously, I used to think King souzys were great, having played one in high school and at various times since. Then I stood in front of one being played, as well as a Jupiter which is the copy of the King (get it - Roman mythology - king of the gods).