(actually) a NEW LOOK at (actually, just specific questions-about) "lacquer vs. silver"

[bloke]

In the USA a century ago, many old instruments were silver plated - most all with a sandblast ("satin") finish.
Even considering inflation, I suspect that plating with silver (for quite a few reasons) was less costly than now.
It's said that lacquers weren't particularly durable - and may not have adhered to brass as well as do both nitroc' and epoxies do today, and others claim that the idea of painting instruments with lacquer (likely: a carry-over from European attitudes) was not something which seemed "right and proper" to do, as there seemed to be no carry-over from varnishing wooden stringed instruments to varnishing brass instruments.
Some mirror-polished accents (bell interiors, mechanisms) were common, and - sometimes - those were gold plated on the silver-plated instruments...and this styling is still admired by many brass players today.

A half century later, the Tonight Show in NBC TV (host: Johnny Carson) hired a new bandleader, Carl "Doc" Severinsen.
(Particularly) trumpet player's eyes popped out at his ALL BRIGHT silver trumpet...thus the (in my memory) beginning of the ALL-BRIGHT-SILVER-FINISH craze in America. Though smears showed up more than with satin silver (or - by then - the durable clear lacquers), American trumpet players loved the bright silver bling (as they were - after all - trumpet players). This carried over to euphoniums and tubas, but not-so-much horns and trombones (though a few trombones were/are sold with bright silver plated finishes).

In Europe, I don't see this century-ago silver thing has having been a "thing", and nor was Doc Severinsen a "thing" in Europe (likely not?) beginning around 1970 or so. Additionally, most (many?) OLDER (really older, along with "custom" and "made for the European market") European-made instruments seem to have been sold new as polished un-lacquered brass.

OK...So much for my long-introduction-to-my-question estimations/suppositions of "how things were in the PAST"...

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ACTUAL TOPIC: European market TODAY...

Approximately what percentage of EUROPEAN trumpet/euphonium/tuba players choose to purchase NEW

BRIGHT silver plated instruments, vs. lacquered brass and vs. un-lacquered brass?

I would appreciate hearing from European players/consumers.

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motivation for this post/question: nothing more than curiosity

[peterbas]

.

[bloke]

Interesting...

- Silver is now popular in Europe.
- Lacquer still remains ~somewhat~ unpopular.

I suppose (polished when new) un-lacquered brass is a small percentage, unlike (based on what we Americans have seen of) European brass instruments fabricated long ago.

[peterbas]

.

[Tubeast]

If You´re in the Streetband / Groove / Volksmusik crossover scene (La Brass Banda and the likes), you better bring something less shiny and more funky-looking to the stage, for coolness reasons.

[donn]

There's plenty of funky looking instruments left over to choose from, though, I think.

The band action I have mostly seen has been local filarmónica bands, a fairly serious concert band format with an organization behind it. Sit down concerts that are fairly well attended, religious parades, etc. Instruments are shiny and new looking, no exceptions. There's plenty of silver plate, but I haven't seen enough to know if there's a consistent balance or if it's just what happens to be available. Nor would I know for sure if it's bright silver - it's bright-"ish", not the frosty heavily blasted finish that restorers love to put on with some gold accents, but if anyone's still producing a light satin finish, that's presumably represented here. This is undoubtedly the bulk of individual band instrument market here, as I suppose the market overall is dominated here as elsewhere by schools. The mention of an unlacquered option makes me wonder though if this is about the tiny minority of instruments that end up in an orchestra.

[bloke]

I was only really interested in what people chose in most of continental Europe when they bought brand new instruments.

[LargeTuba]

Unrelated, I’m curious to know (since I’ve never owned a tuba with this finish) does satin silver get dirty faster than regular silver, and is it harder to clean than regular silver?

[bloke]

I think it tarnishes it about the same rate, but it does have more surface area. All you have to do is think about it and you'll realize that. I always clean it chemically with some sulfur stinking milky watery stuff, because abrasive polish gets caught down in the texture, and - by the time it's cleaned out of the texture - it's no longer shiny.

It may seem to tarnish more quickly, because people with this finish 10 to not do anything about it, whereas with a smooth surface they can wipe areas with a cloth that has some polish in it and larger areas of the instrument remain fairly shiny.

[donn]

Or bright silver goes bad much faster, because as bloke mentioned above, the textureless finish makes a slight discoloration more obvious.

[spirtuba]

Here in Switzerland I think most people buy silver plated piston and lacquered rotary tubas. Nearly all rotary instruments are lacquered, I only once saw a silver plated french horn. Trombones nearly always are lacquered, silver plated ones are mostly military instruments. Piston trumpets, I think, may be 50/50 lacquered/silver plated. But that's only my limited personal observation.

[edfirth]

In the forty years I've worked in Central Florida I only recall ONE 1 laquered french horn. Most seem to favor silver Conn 8D's. Ed

[Rick Denney]

Has Hirsbrunner made an instrument without a bright silver-plate finish in the last many decades? I don’t think lacquer or raw is even an option, and the few lacquered Hirsbrunners I’ve seen were more than many decades old.

Has Miraphone silver-plated more than a few percentage points of rotary tubas in the last many decades? Even back in the day, a silver finish on a Miraphone was the rare exception.

The last satin finish I saw on a Besson was made more than many decades ago.

Rick “Europeans seem to play what’s available for sale, like everyone else” Denney

[arpthark]

Has Hirsbrunner made an instrument without a bright silver-plate finish in the last many decades?

Likely one-offs, but:

https://brassandpipes.wordpress.com/201 ... r-cc-tuba/

https://brassandpipes.wordpress.com/202 ... model-288/

[bloke]

Has Hirsbrunner made an instrument without a bright silver-plate finish in the last many decades? I don’t think lacquer or raw is even an option, and the few lacquered Hirsbrunners I’ve seen were more than many decades old.

Has Miraphone silver-plated more than a few percentage points of rotary tubas in the last many decades? Even back in the day, a silver finish on a Miraphone was the rare exception.

The last satin finish I saw on a Besson was made more than many decades ago.

Rick “Europeans seem to play what’s available for sale, like everyone else” Denney

Combining a kranz with silver plating is a risk.

I took a risk when I plated that tuba that I sold to Bill.