Advice on mouthpieces for high-register Eb playing

[GC]

A lot of the British Brass Band music we're doing this year requires more high register playing than I'm accustomed to. I'm not very secure above Bb at the top of the staff (treble clef BritBB music high G) and am asking for advice for a mouthpiece that can help with attack and pitch security. I'm not looking for a MP much smaller than 24AW cup width. I'm thinking that a shallower cup would likely help. I have a RM-9 and a Mr.P 6.4, but they don't quite do the job.

Any recommendations, please?

[Mary Ann]

well -- I'll tell you what I ended up with, but I do have a good high range to start with, from being a horn player. And I am likely quite a bit smaller than you.
I went with narrow but not shallow; the narrow definitely helps with the high range and the the not shallow keeps the low range working. Currently on a JK 8C. Previously I was on a 7B, and this piece is easier for me without wrecking the low range.

Just will list my accessible range, that I run into mostly playing Tuba 1 in TE quartet: Eb above the bass clef is not difficult; F is a bit of a push, but I usually hit it when required. My problems are at the opposite end -- the false tone / or / 2-4-5 valved Ab below the staff, I can get, and the G below that, but lower -- I do not have the air, so I don't grab contrabass parts.

[Mark E. Chachich]

I used a Bach 32 E on my E flat (York Monster). For me it worked in all registers and I tried other mouthpieces including the Bach 24 AW.

best,
Mark

[2nd tenor]

A lot of the British Brass Band music we're doing this year requires more high register playing than I'm accustomed to. I'm not very secure above Bb at the top of the staff (treble clef BritBB music high G) and am asking for advice for a mouthpiece that can help with attack and pitch security. I'm not looking for a MP much smaller than 24AW cup width. I'm thinking that a shallower cup would likely help. I have a RM-9 and a Mr.P 6.4, but they don't quite do the job.

Any recommendations, please?

A Wick 2L, which isn’t a small cup, takes me to transposed treble clef high C (concert Eb) and sometimes the D (Concert F). I happen to have a Bach 25 copy and, with barely any down-side, that gives an easier and more secure top range, a Wick 4 or 5 would also do the trick too.

As an observation playing the high notes using a small cup mouthpiece has helped me to (in later months) play them using a bigger mouthpiece, YMMV.

Practise makes a difference, but be patient with yourself.

[acemorgan]

I use a Wick 5 (small bore), and it works for me. High Eb is no problem. My high range is proportionally way better on my tubas than it is on my euphonium, and I use a Helleberg 5e on it. For what it's worth.

[donn]

The Denis Wick 5 is also reasonably deep, so there's support for higher pitches but it still sounds like a tuba. That's what I think anyway - somewhat opposite from what you asked for, but there you go. If you really want a shallower mouthpiece, there's the Schilke 62.

[GC]

To resurrect an old thread, I found what looks like a better mouthpiece for my high range problem, and oddly enough, it has made middle and low register easier. A year ago at NABBA, I bought a Mercer and Barker MB3, and thoroughly enjoyed playing it. It's comfortable and easy to play, but I still struggled in the upper register, even though I did better with it than with any MP I've used on Eb.

This year at NABBA, the Mercer & Barker rep (who is an excellent tuba player) suggested that I try the MBUZ5, which is a Tim Buzbee-designed F tuba mouthpiece (it's on the British M&B web site but not the US). It didn't make the high notes pop out of the horn on first tryout, but had an excellent mid and low range tone, and low register notes that have been mushy spoke cleanly and easily. I bought it to use in community band, and at rehearsal I found myself easily popping out notes that had been insecure for quite a while. Low register was easier. High register was easier. Everything was easier. The high register parts that had given me grief were still not easy, but they were less difficult.

The MBUZ5 (called the "Lone ⭐︎ Star" model) has a larger cup diameter than I've used for a while; the cup is a fairly shallow cone. I expected it to be really bright, but the sound is nice and mellow. There is no miracle mouthpiece, but I'm happy with the serious improvements. What works for me may not work for anyone else, but hey . . .

[Vegasbound]

Wick 3sl, combined with a good practice regime, as already said no such thing as a miracle mouthpiece

[Mary Ann]

I use a Wick 5 (small bore), and it works for me. High Eb is no problem. My high range is proportionally way better on my tubas than it is on my euphonium, and I use a Helleberg 5e on it. For what it's worth.

Interesting that since I posted in this thread, I've switched to a Wick 5 in my NStar, and it works better than anything else I've tried, for ease of playing.

[bloke]

A lot of the British Brass Band music we're doing this year requires more high register playing than I'm accustomed to. I'm not very secure above Bb at the top of the staff (treble clef BritBB music high G) and am asking for advice for a mouthpiece that can help with attack and pitch security. I'm not looking for a MP much smaller than 24AW cup width. I'm thinking that a shallower cup would likely help. I have a RM-9 and a Mr.P 6.4, but they don't quite do the job.

Any recommendations, please?

Play some trombone and bassoon stuff as written.
If I neglect stuff above the staff for a month or two, I sorta suck at that stuff.
After listening to myself suck playing above the staff for two or three days, it begins to improve.
The more I play up there (until I get too busy/tired-from-being-too-busy - again - to do much practicing) the better it gets.

- The post-Fletcher 19"-bell E-flat tubas (and yours is particularly fine...I'm jealous) aren't the world's greatest tubas for playing much above the staff...For me, they do pretty darn well up to E-flat (above the staff), and then begin to ghost. Yes, I can still play higher pitches, but (with that large bell) it's more difficult to make pitches (much higher than that) really "ring" without a ton of practicing (which increases strength). There's a reason that (traditionally) those instruments featured 15" bells. Not only - with a traditional 15-inch bell - is the higher range less worth, but the sound (compared to the traditional 17-inch bell BB-flat basses...and yes, these days they're all making them 19-inch) was lighter.
- Narrower mouthpiece cups (mouth openings) don't tend to help the high range all that much.
- Narrower mouthpiece throat openings (such as moving from 8.2mm to 8mm or even smaller) seem to help a little bit.

About the only way I know of - today - to somewhat affordably get a 'new' 15-inch bell 3+1 compensating E-flat (as a large percentage of the original ones' valves are getting to be pretty worn) is to buy a 19-inch bell one, buy a YEB-321 bell (ie. "repair part") and swap bells.

The most helpful thing that I posted in this response is the portion above in large/bold.

My recently-released narrow/shallow/small-through (one-piece silver plated brass) mouthpiece is - pretty much - a "specialty" mouthpiece...and I'm really hesitant to encourage anyone to buy one (other than to use with a cimbasso or some extremely small bass tuba)...If used with any sort of normal-sized tuba, I would sort of view it as a "Chase/Maynard-for-tuba" type of mouthpiece...ie. offers some things...takes away some things

[2nd tenor]

A lot of the British Brass Band music we're doing this year requires more high register playing than I'm accustomed to. I'm not very secure above Bb at the top of the staff (treble clef BritBB music high G) ….

Any recommendations, please?

Thanks for the update on your progress and changes, I’m glad that you found something that suits you.

To add to what Bloke has said on high range. I’m very much an amateur and claim no particular skills, just an old man trying to enjoy playing and improve a little when and where I can. In a Brass Band it’s rare to get called on to play an Eb Bass above the stave but I still practise doing so. Let’s talk in treble clef, I have some books of unaccompanied tunes and some tunes don’t go above middle C. As part of high range extension and maintenance practise I play those tunes but up an octave, a similar trick is used for low range development. Of course scales and long notes are good too, but they can be very boring.

[bloke]

My post was too long, but basically it advised that practicing playing in the high range improves playing in the high range.

The mouthpiece that I offered up for sale recently personally gave me three additional whole steps of focused sounding range upstairs, but those are not pitches that I really need... not even on the f cimbasso...

... so I don't think there's a magic mouthpiece for high range.

[2nd tenor]

Mostly I think that the magic comes from the player. That said I’ve settled on working with the Wick range of mouthpieces (because they are an incremental range, because they’re readily available in the UK and because I find that they’re a quality product that delivers what I and my playing pals are looking for).

Over the years I’ve worked up (to larger diameter cups) through the Wick range to a Wick 2L on an Eb Bass, I find that that larger diameter cup gives a fuller tone and allows the instrument to speak better through the fourth valve. In my earlier days on the Eb, and on an old three valve practise instrument, I would choose to use a Wick 5 (small cup and small shank receiver) to develop my high range (for me the higher notes come more easily with a small cup) and to generally make playing less fatiguing. Once you’re regularly nailing a high note using a small cup you can usually increase the cup size (to gain better tone) and learn to nail the high note again.

In treble clef terms my top C is now solid but the D above remains stubbornly allusive with the Wick 2L, but if I use 3L it’s more likely to pop out and if I tried a smaller cup again (unfortunately I have not got a 4L or 5L) then I’d likely make the further marginal difference to start to nail it. However there’s a trade off for all things and what I gain at the top of the pitch range (by changing cup size change) I tend to weaken or loose at the bottom.

Is a solid top C on an Eb Tuba a good enough high pitch limit for a Brass Band player? For what it’s worth I’d say a solid top C limit is fine and that I’ve never been called upon to play that high. IMHO the important thing about having a good top C is that the notes below it are secure, because very occasionally you are asked to play just above the stave - that ask becomes more likely in better skilled Bands who play the more challenging pieces.