Yamaha 623

[bloke]

Other than a handful of shills, has anyone else played one of these (who might care to offer a critique) ?

Here's the Yama lacquer online pic.
(Silver pictures are too hard for me to interpret.)

IF ANYONE KNOWS:
Is the second main slide located in a convenient "tune any note" position?

[MN_TimTuba]

Where is it?

Looks like there’s a ferrule and inner slide at the joint for the innermost branch, which seems like it would be convenient to reach but an acoustically odd place to put a slide.

[bloke]

Where is it?

Looks like there’s a ferrule and inner slide at the joint for the innermost branch, which seems like it would be convenient to reach but an acoustically odd place to put a slide.

They offer this pic: (which makes it look to be a "maybe")

[bort2.0]

I agree, seems really late to add a slide... Because you're starting to mess around with conical tubing more than cylindrical. I doubt it works "worse" than anything else. "Better" though...? I'll be watching for the replies here.

[bloke]

still...
It looks like a place whereby a player's left hand could grab from the back and (again) tune anything.

"where a main slide is located"...whatever...It's a tuba.

Tubas that offer response problems and challenging intonation are difficult to fix.
Tubas that respond well and play innately offer good intonation are difficult to mess up.

...I've seen a short demo video of someone moving the 1st slide c. three inches (octaves)...but I dunno whether the tuba requires that, or whether that's a habit (from playing their own tuba).

So often, I see videos of people landing in wildly different 1st-slide positions to play the same pitch in the same key signature or chord...but whatever...

[matt g]

...I've seen a short demo video of someone moving the 1st slide c. three inches (octaves)...but I dunno whether the tuba requires that, or whether that's a habit (from playing their own tuba).

A lot of young players would be better off not touching any slides on a horn for about the first two weeks of practice with it. Then get out the tuner and some drone tones and figure things out.

The only time I’ve needed to yank a slide more than probably 3/4” or so is the low stuff where the tuba simply doesn’t offer a straight solution for the lack of plumbing.

I’ll admit I’ve not kept up with any social media posts on this horn after if first arrived.

[bloke]

With my huge B-flat, I move the slide from all the way in - for second space c (so often: the flattest pitch on a tuba...and traspose for various lengths of tubas) to about an inch and a quarter out from there for a whole lot of stuff, and another inch and a half out from there - because I choose to play C below the staff with 1-3 as well choosing to play the adjacent D with 1-2...

... but the only frantic/extreme/wild movement would be jumping back and forth between octave C's, obviously.
... I tend to believe - or, at least, hope - that my 1st slide movements are purposeful, rather than a nervous habit.

[bort2.0]

...I've seen a short demo video of someone moving the 1st slide c. three inches (octaves)...but I dunno whether the tuba requires that, or whether that's a habit (from playing their own tuba).

A lot of young players would be better off not touching any slides on a horn for about the first two weeks of practice with it. Then get out the tuner and some drone tones and figure things out.

The only time I’ve needed to yank a slide more than probably 3/4” or so is the low stuff where the tuba simply doesn’t offer a straight solution for the lack of plumbing.

I’ll admit I’ve not kept up with any social media posts on this horn after if first arrived.

Totally agree. I'm not a slide puller either, and I think a four valve C tuba is about the only time I've let it be acceptable, for exactly the reasons that Matt describes.

Bunch of years ago, I played some concerts next to Kevin Ladd, who played his entire career plus on his Marzan C tuba. He used that top facing main tuning slide constantly. If anything, it was microtuning in the I can hear grass grow kind of way... Or, in the I'm not going to use an alternate fingering kind of way. Regardless, I haven't always spent a lot of time playing alongside professional tuba players, especially not those who are retired, and have been playing the tuba for 1.5x as long as I've been alive. But when I have, I've always noticed the ease and effortlessness at which they play their instruments, and do whatever big or little thing they need to do to play in tune.

I watch some of these guys what videos moving first, fourth, even third valve slides all around, a tuning trigger or two, main tuning slide triggers... That's just not for me. And in my experience, all the old dudes who have been playing forever sound great, or in tune, and are not working super hard to do that. I would like to think it doesn't take 50 years of playing to get to that point.

It's the player not the tuba, but hey, it's also kind of the tuba, too.

[Sousaswag]

Maybe it’s just me, but I notice some players seem to “habitually” push and pull a tuning slide for every note regardless of if they’re pushing that slide’s button(s) or not. I find it silly.

I have yet to own a tuba that requires more than the 3/4” pull Matt mentioned. Even my Hb-2p didn’t need that much pull. On any slide.

[bloke]

I move slides when the tuba is not the right length.

I'm not mocking anyone - not at all, but - right this moment as I'm posting - I'm imagining trombone players saying that anywhere within an inch or two of 5th position is okay, and their ear will help them lip those three pitch in tune - or that the three different pitches they play in 5th position are all good enough to play in exactly the same version of fifth position, or anywhere within 3/8 of an inch of second position is okay for the same reason.

I don't pull slides on my four valve compensating instruments - because I really can't (I suppose I could, but I'm would need to be playing them more often to justify building the gadgetry to do that) and I don't pull slides on my six-valve F tuba, because I have so many possibilities for nearly spot-on tuning - combined with the fact that the F tuba's inherent tuning is so stupid good and its so-called "slots" are all barn door wide open.. but that barn door wide stuff requires that I pay even more attention than with my other instruments.

Particularly with a big contrabass tuba - as these are all the rage, these days...along with the fact that composers use midi keyboards and write parts for us that would have been considered ridiculous when I first began playing as an adult, that range of the instrument just isn't going to resonate worth a crap (OK... unless we/I play those pitches wherever they prefer to sound) without the length of the instrument being nearly absolutely perfect, and - candidly - another reason why I'm so interested in the contrabass tubas being nearly precisely the correct length is because It embarrasses the hell out of me to chip notes, and I chip microscopically fewer notes when the instrument is the correct length - and now (as far as chipping notes is concerned) I'm discussing the middle and upper range of the instrument...

... so - rather than being some "intonation snob" or claiming to "hear the grass grow", I don't like music directors telling me that my low range passages aren't loud enough (as so many people today are accustomed to hearing larger-than-life artificially loud tuba sounds on movie soundtracks, and (again) I don't like being judged as a dolt for chipping notes that aren't even as high as middle C.

back to trombone analogies:
They use a ton of slide and a little bit of valve.
I think it's okay for us to use a ton of valve and a little bit of slide.

[jtm]

...

I watch some of these guys what videos moving first, fourth, even third valve slides all around, a tuning trigger or two, main tuning slide triggers... That's just not for me. And in my experience, all the old dudes who have been playing forever sound great, or in tune, and are not working super hard to do that. I would like to think it doesn't take 50 years of playing to get to that point.

It's the player not the tuba, but hey, it's also kind of the tuba, too.

I'm on my third F tuba in the past year. With each change, my playing got better and easier. Sure, I've improved, gradually, over the year, but a lot of it is the tuba. The latest is probably one I can set aside for a while, as bloke says, and come back to it without having to relearn everything. The first one certainly wasn't.

[bloke]

@bort2.0

I'm only functionally (so-called) "smart" - as I made it clear in another post in another thread, but when someone puts their mind to it - in addition to shopping for instruments based on intonation characteristics (rather than looks, others online opinions, or "legacy player X played one of these..." etc.) its possible to analyze all the minor problems and figure out ways to not frantically/constantly move one's hand all over the instrument (as if spinning plates on sticks). Notice that I'm putting a great deal of responsibility on the instrument itself; in other words responsibility on the the player to choose an instrument that (not only isn't hopelessly wonky, intonation-wise, but also) offers remarkably good - if not inexplicably good - inherent intonation characteristics. At the risk of getting personal, most of the instruments that you have paraded in front of all of us haven't met that standard, and one - that you sold long ago - most likely did.

That having been said - in a fairly demonstrative way, imagine all the makes and models of tubas designed in the last few decades that would have been abysmal failures (sales-wise) had those shopping for them put intonation characteristics first and foremost above all other playing characteristics... and no, I'm not about to list any of them.

Circling back to the banner of this thread, I I'm just expressing curiosity as to whether anyone here is actually played on one of these things (the particular model) in a critical way. I've said it before many times, I've said it recently, and I'll say it again: As far as "politics" are concerned, defending or criticizing particular makes and models of instruments is by far the most political thing discussed here, and actually getting down to the nitty-gritty and discussing their intonation characteristics is to (finally) not talk around the edges of the elephant in the Elephant Room.

[Dents Be Gone!]

I agree, guys. This is the way to go.

[bloke]

I agree with the previous post and Matt, in that I have found that it can take more time than sometimes I think to settle into an instrument and figure out just exactly where the pitches are located. It's a combination of that and learning what the instrument needs to resonate at its maximum capacity, which is sort of a teeter-totter thing which works its way into final accuracy.

I'm really glad I waited a few months before doing the alterations I did on my really big B flat tuba.

[BuddyRogersMusic]

I played Carol Jantsch's horn back in June and found it to be a pretty darn good horn. I only had a few minutes with it and found nothing negative about it. I do have one coming to the showroom later this month/December in silver and will get much more time to develop an opinion.

The second main tuning slide is very accessible without any hassle. I don't remember needing it but I did only have a few minutes.

I thought it played a bit bigger than its 4/4 label but I'm used to that with my Rudi 4/4 CC, too. The build quality is Yamaha and that's to be expected. I'll be able to report more when the horn lands.

@bort2.0

I'm only functionally (so-called) "smart" - as I made it clear in another post in another thread, but when someone puts their mind to it - in addition to shopping for instruments based on intonation characteristics (rather than looks, others online opinions, or "legacy player X played one of these..." etc.) its possible to analyze all the minor problems and figure out ways to not frantically/constantly move one's hand all over the instrument (as if spinning plates on sticks). Notice that I'm putting a great deal of responsibility on the instrument itself; in other words responsibility on the the player to choose an instrument that (not only isn't hopelessly wonky, intonation-wise, but also) offers remarkably good - if not inexplicably good - inherent intonation characteristics. At the risk of getting personal, most of the instruments that you have paraded in front of all of us haven't met that standard, and one - that you sold long ago - most likely did.

That having been said - in a fairly demonstrative way, imagine all the makes and models of tubas designed in the last few decades that would have been abysmal failures (sales-wise) had those shopping for them put intonation characteristics first and foremost above all other playing characteristics... and no, I'm not about to list any of them.

Circling back to the banner of this thread, I I'm just expressing curiosity as to whether anyone here is actually played on one of these things (the particular model) in a critical way. I've said it before many times, I've said it recently, and I'll say it again: As far as "politics" are concerned, defending or criticizing particular makes and models of instruments is by far the most political thing discussed here, and actually getting down to the nitty-gritty and discussing their intonation characteristics is to (finally) not talk around the edges of the elephant in the Elephant Room.

[jtuba]

Is the 2nd valve vent on the wrong side of the valve like on some YamaYorks?

[Dents Be Gone!]

I agree, guys. This is the way to go.

[bloke]

I think I'm remembering that - with some Willson tubas - they drilled the casing - instead of the piston.

One of my background fears - when venting someone's piston or rotor casing - is that I'll do it in the wrong place (because I'm not concentrating enough, or something). I go through the entire procedure of measuring and marking three times before drilling any holes. I believe I'm making the correct assumption that I'm an idiot.

[bloke]

Looking at pictures of the 623, I'm seeing more of the "Yamaha personality" in its appearance vs. the 826, which (known, obviously) - pretty much - is an attempt to build a York 6/4 tuba.

[BuddyRogersMusic]

It finally arrived on Saturday and I got to spend a few minutes with it. The horn actually comes with a warning to not grasp the instrument by the internal tuning slide. It is as large as branch tubing and I've already cautioned our showroom personnel to be careful.

The tuba plays very well and like Carol's model I played six months ago. All the slides are easily reached and manipulated. I might use it this weekend for a large band concert. Build quality is top notch, typical Yamaha. I don't think this horn will stay for long.