Teenager part-time job with technician

[gocsick]

So my son is developing into a fine musician and is in several audition ensemble on tuba and double bass. He is a pretty good piano player as well. He is very interested in studying tuba performance. I want to encourage him but also want him to explore other career paths.

I don't think he has the interest to follow me into engineering or academia. He is careful and methodical he has done a few simple projects on my lathe and is pretty handy with his 3d printer. He isn't particularly adventurous though, he is a bit nervous about doing something without instruction until he gets comfortable, so was never worried about him pulling out power tools and hiding himself when he was younger. He also is really interested in frakentubas and modifications. He takes really excellent care of his Miraphone 186 and is careful about oiling and cleaning etc on a regular schedule.

I am thinking he might have some aptitude as a technician. I was thinking of encouraging him to maybe taking to some if they local techs about some part time work to learn a little and see if maybe an apprenticeship or tech school might be a good fit for him in the future.

My question is... is this a fools errand? What are the odds you would hire anyone in a similar situation? I mean he is going to be pretty useless at anything except cleaning up without some kind of time investment from whoever he works with.


I am fortunate enough to be in a position that he really doesn't need a job, although it would be really nice if he can contribute a but towards car and insurance etc. So minimum wage is really ok. Heck it might even be ok for him to volunteer for a bit just to get s feel of what the job might entail. Better he learn something rather than flipping burgers.

Thoughts?

[Dents Be Gone!]

I agree, guys. This is the way to go.

[matt g]

As opposed to being a musical repair technician person, how about a welder or metal fabricator?

Places that will hire people for these jobs usually have the bandwidth and budget to train, and the overall market is much larger.

If you look around at stuff like the submarine industrial base, you’ll see openings for jobs with solid pay and benefits with good stability.

[KerryAbear]

It never hurts to ask.

[gocsick]

As opposed to being a musical repair technician person, how about a welder or metal fabricator?

Definitely a possibility, I know plenty of people in manufacturing. I am affiliated with a welding engineering program and do research in manufacturing. I would be happy if he settled into a trade when the time comes

Right now, since he really seems drawn to music as a career path, I want to expose him to other options beside conservatory training or music education.

[bloke]

The first thing that someone needs to learn how to do is to polish things without having the machine grab them out of their hands... but no one with a shop wants to let anyone learn how to polish, because they don't need customers' stuff being torn up while someone's learning how to avoid having stuff be torn up.

A whole bunch of people are self-taught, and learn by trial and error, or - if they were lucky - they got to watch somebody else do things (and maybe because they were up in the front selling guitars and trumpets, but there was somebody unusually good in the back of their music store where the salesman-later-to-become-repairman was able to hang out and chat with between customers). To be clear, the self-taught (as well as the formally taught) end up ranging anywhere between near genius and dangerous (from high to low). I can't afford to have someone in here learning how to do anything unless they pay me as much as I'm charging to fix things...but - while I'm being paid by a trainee - the customer instruments aren't getting fixed, so I'm losing customers. It's just really impossible, and I've had many dads ask me about having their sons come in, over the years. Mostly, I think those dads way underestimate the complexity and quantity of skills and the amount of time it takes to master them. These days, it's becoming more and more challenging, as fewer and fewer models continue to be made, and things have to be repaired without there being any parts that can be ordered. Doing this stuff is not only something that requires self-motivation, but it also requires self-teaching. Even something as nearly-the-same-every-time as a flute is going to have all sorts of different problems with every single instrument. There really aren't any standard jobs (ie. same every time) in this industry for which someone can charge a fixed price, even though the stuff that we fix is a lot less complicated than cars. (In reality, every single car fill-in-the-blank job is different, but people expect to be quoted prices, so car shops quote really high prices to cover themselves when they encounter all sorts of crazy problems with cars - just as we do with instruments. Anyone who's ever fixed anything at home knows that - when they plan on it taking 30 minutes - it takes 3 hours, "because..." After 45 years of goofing around with stuff like this, I'm finally getting a little faster at doing some things, I've figured out quite a few shortcuts, my hands know where to go and what to do, and I've also learned how long a lot of this stuff - that looks like it's going to be easy and quick - actually takes.

This doesn't have to do much with this thread, but there are a whole bunch of musicians who send stuff off to other cities to have things repaired. It's what I refer to as the "Local Yocal Bias". In other words, "How could anyone around here possibly be good enough to work on my instruments?" A professional player with a really fancy (low C and extra keys) and really nice condition Buffet bass clarinet had a piece come off of it, and they freaked out. They asked someone in their orchestra if there was anyone local who could repair it - and they sent them to me. It required soldering a silver plated thing to a silver plated thing - which is pretty challenging, as far as cosmetics are concerned. I did my best work, and there was no evidence of anything. The part came off because it looked as though the factory had used some of that electrochemical stuff to clean excess solder off (saving polishing time), and had turned the solder underneath the joint sort of into Swiss cheese. It held for several years but then it failed, due to the Swiss cheese thing + weight on that solder joint. That person was extremely pleased, but guess what? They still haven't brought the instrument back for regular service, and probably went right back to sending it out of town for all the routine easy stuff.

It looks like I went off topic, but I'm trying to paint a picture for the person who started the thread.

[BRS]

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[bloke]

If it comes from the young man - instead of from Dad, the young man will figure out a way to start learning how to do some of this stuff.

It's neither easy nor clean work.

[MikeS]

Stating the obvious…

Training someone is expensive. It costs money and is an investment. Someone who already can produce has to take time away from producing to train.

I met someone once who had worked at a furniture shop in Ireland. When he approached them about apprenticing there, they showed him to a workbench with access to hand tools, a pile of lumber and a plan drawing for a drawer. He was told that if he could make a drawer with hand-cut dovetails in under 45 minutes they could afford to have him as an apprentice.

The fellow said he thought it a fair test. You needed to have been interested enough in the work to have accumulated some skills already. It showed some commitment to the craft up front. Somebody who was just kicking the tires of different careers was never going to be able to do it. It also meant that he could do some work with minimal supervision and not be a complete drain on the bottom line.

He did say there was one wrinkle thrown in. When he made his first cut with a chisel, he turned to the guy watching him and said, “Have you got a stone? The edge on this thing is shite.” The watcher smiled, handed him the stone, and said he always dulled it a bit on purpose before those tests.

[Dents Be Gone!]

I agree, guys. This is the way to go.

[York-aholic]

I do a fair amount of woodworking but hand cut dovetails isn’t something I could get done in 45 minutes.

But a vase…

(Not 45 minutes)

IMG_0142.jpeg (30.48 KiB) Viewed 1428 times

[bloke]

Sometimes, the perfect follow-up post can't be submitted, because - even though it wouldn't really be incriminating or anything - the person involved in the anecdote probably wouldn't want it to be told, and their identity might be too easy to guess...

... so I'm going to wish everyone a Merry Christmas.

[BRS]

.

[gocsick]

Sometimes, the perfect follow-up post can't be submitted, because - even though it wouldn't really be incriminating or anything - the person involved in the anecdote probably wouldn't want it to be told, and their identity might be too easy to guess...

... so I'm going to wish everyone a Merry Christmas.

The young man in question is going to introduce himself the owner after the holidays. I am not above pushing a little bit as a father, but he has to do the legwork and get the ball rolling. Even if the answer is NO, he'll have at least had the experience and learned a bit of a life lesson.

Let you know how it goes.


Merry Christmas to you too.

[2nd tenor]

So my son is developing into a fine musician and is in several audition ensemble on tuba and double bass. He is a pretty good piano player as well. He is very interested in studying tuba performance. I want to encourage him but also want him to explore other career paths.

I don't think he has the interest to follow me into engineering or academia. He is careful and methodical he has done a few simple projects on my lathe and is pretty handy with his 3d printer. He isn't particularly adventurous though, he is a bit nervous about doing something without instruction until he gets comfortable, so was never worried about him pulling out power tools and hiding himself when he was younger. He also is really interested in frakentubas and modifications. He takes really excellent care of his Miraphone 186 and is careful about oiling and cleaning etc on a regular schedule.

I am thinking he might have some aptitude as a technician. I was thinking of encouraging him to maybe taking to some if they local techs about some part time work to learn a little and see if maybe an apprenticeship or tech school might be a good fit for him in the future.

My question is... is this a fools errand? What are the odds you would hire anyone in a similar situation? I mean he is going to be pretty useless at anything except cleaning up without some kind of time investment from whoever he works with.


I am fortunate enough to be in a position that he really doesn't need a job, although it would be really nice if he can contribute a but towards car and insurance etc. So minimum wage is really ok. Heck it might even be ok for him to volunteer for a bit just to get s feel of what the job might entail. Better he learn something rather than flipping burgers.

Thoughts?

My professional background - retired now - is in engineering, it’s a very very broad field and so much so that people can have totally different skill sets and personal attributes; within engineering there’s pretty much a place for anyone who has the interest, ‘just’ a case of finding one of those places.

No matter how good a musician someone is I’d not encourage them to do anymore than enjoy music as a hobby. Why so negative? I’ve just seen too many gifted musicians struggle to get by and their dreams end in tears.

My question is... is this a fools errand? What are the odds you would hire anyone in a similar situation? I mean he is going to be pretty useless at anything except cleaning up without some kind of time investment from whoever he works with.

Unfortunately I rather think that it is not a good way forward and is very likely to result in rejection, but I could be wrong.

Getting your children established in the working world is sensible to my mind but like all good ideas it is fraught with hazards. The truth is that folk can follow a spread of things that will be enjoyable work and that it’s the quality of who you work for and with that matters - well that’s my hard earned experience. So with that truth in mind cast your net wide and see what comes up.

For my own children I split the employment concept into two parts - if asked then I’d advise others to do the same. They had regular part time jobs, like delivering papers and (retail) shop work, and I also got them short periods of unpaid work experience too. One ‘part’ instilled work ethic and rewarded them with discretionary income and the other ‘part’ provided samplers both to show them lots of different occupations and to meet different people in the work place. YMMV but that way forward worked out very well; if anything I was a little too directive on what work experience directions were followed but structure is important and perfect balance is hard to find - for me the results were as good as any parent can hope for. Happy parent and happy offspring .

Good look and well done to you in trying to help your child.

[bloke]

It's easy to shake one's finger at others and refer to their comments as negative - when never having been where they are. There's not a whole lot that can be learned quickly and and done expertly in a musical instrument repair shop, and it's already been pointed out that people who do the work can't afford to stop and teach someone. It's also been pointed out that the most basic work in a repair shop is polishing instruments, yet that's the most dangerous and the most skillful job even though the most basic, because both the instrument can be destroyed and the person doing the work can end up in the hospital.

Not only is it dangerous, but it's dirty. It's not white coat and laboratory.. None of it is.

People who tend to get into the business indeed are people who play instruments, but people who seem to have a knack for repairing cars, building an outbuilding from scratch with just a plan in their own head - including wiring plumbing and heating it, making old watches work again, or things like that, are probably the best suited to this sort of thing. It's pretty easy to learn how to play all of the wind instruments well enough to make sure that they work properly after repairing them, compared to learning how effectively diagnose and carry out really effective repairs, particularly if there aren't any parts in a drawer to swap out - or even to order from some supplier or manufacturer.

These are why there are hundreds if not thousands of dads across the country that ask musical instrument repairmen the same question that was asked in this thread (and I'm not scolding or chiding this dad at all...absolutely not at all) and just about 100% of them get turned down. This was all explained previously in the thread, but apparently it wasn't made clear enough to some thread spectators. I do understand the tendency to downplay the cognitive requirements, variety of skills, ability to overcome one's own frustration with something particularly problematic and continue onward, and those sort of things that are required for most types of blue collar work.

I notice on Facebook that school teachers always like to post memes about how their jobs involve so much more than anyone understands and they should be appreciated more and blah blah blah. They seem to be under the impression that their type of job is the only type of job that can be described in that way. Most other types of workers don't create, post or share memes about how people don't understand them and their experiences in their workplaces. They just do their jobs.
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[York-aholic]

school teachers always like to post memes about how their jobs involve so much more than anyone understands and they should be appreciated more and blah blah blah. They seem to be under the impression that their type of job is the only type of job that can be described in that way.

I do not!







Please note that I am not completely disagreeing with you…

[The Big Ben]

I notice on Facebook that school teachers always like to post memes about how their jobs involve so much more than anyone understands and they should be appreciated more and blah blah blah. They seem to be under the impression that their type of job is the only type of job that can be described in that way. Most other types of workers don't create, post or share memes about how people don't understand them and their experiences in their workplaces. They just do their jobs.
.

I'm retired after 33 years of teaching in the public schools.
Social information gained from Facebook memes is not very reliable.

[Mary Ann]

What this actually reminded me of is parents who want their kid to play an instrument because the parent wishes they had done that when they were kids. Those scenarios almost never work out, because the motivation did not come from the kid, and then the parent in addition wants the teacher to provide the motivation. I think this young man probably has some growing up to do before he develops the desires on his own as to what he wants to do. Some people are better off in occupations where they do have a structure "from above," and others are much better off with figuring everything out for themselves. You find them in very different occupations.

[bloke]

Of course not all teachers share those memes but I see no such memes related to any other occupation.